I have a keyless flute and I’m pretty sure I can cross finger Bb and C in the first 2 octaves well enough. Currently I have long term plans for a keyed flute and was wondering how needed the Bb key is in the 3rd octave assuming you have the G#,F and Eb keys already. Thanks for the help, really appreciate it.
You do need it for some of the very top notes, but these don’t tend to be used in trad in any case. Are you looking to use the flute for something other than trad?
[EDITED TO ADD] Sorry “need” is perhaps a bit strong. The Bb key is very useful for the intonation and ease of speaking of some of the very top notes.
I was kinda thinking it was useful for the 3rd octave, but wasn’t sure. While I like working on playing traditional, I would also like to work on non-traditional pieces and some of them have 3rd octave notes.
Actually, thinking about it, you don’t need the Bb key in the third octave until you get up to B natural.
Although it is used in the commonest 3rd 8ve F and F# fingerings as indicated in period charts… I use it for my normal fingerings of those notes and for high B nat too. (I know Ben mostly uses a different high F# which doesn’t use the Bb key…)
e.g. Rockstro’s main chart
I mostly use xx,o xx,o, for high F and either xx,x xox or Ben’s xoo xo,o, for F# and xx,o ooo, for high B.
Can anyone out there play a third-octave B on a modern wooden flute? Try as I might, I can never get above A, and don’t generally try to go above G. (I don’t play an 8-key, which may be the primary issue issue.) I know the older 8-keys can do three good octaves, but can, say an Olwell or Grinter in the right hands play above A?
Chas - I’ve certainly gone to (very) top C on Wilkes and Grinter flutes - keyed ones, of course. It should not be a problem - they haven’t generally tweaked the bore/playing characteristics so as to lose access to the 3rd 8ve. If anything, their improvements, whilst probably aimed at optimising the low register, may well help the high one too, though it may be that different fingerings among the plethora of variants (see Rick Wilson’s composite chart and Rockstro’s variants) will work better than on an antique - but the latter vary a good deal! Of course, it helps to know what is supposed to work up there!
One cannot normally get above A on a keyless flute, and that with gaps in the scale unless you have at least an Eb key.
Here are the Langey charts which were my primary source for learning use of the keys when I switched to 8-key flute from Bohm.
And here are Rockstro’s variants charts.
Thanks for the charts Jem, they were very helpful, especially the variants chart. So looking at the charts, with a 3 key flute(G#, short F, Eb) I could at least make it up to high A which should be fine.
I haven’t tried to check that statement… but it seems likely to me that you should be able to get a chromatic scale up to high (3rd 8ve) A, prob high Bb, without too much trouble, at least in actually finding a fingering with tolerable tone and intonation for each note: how easy it will be to use the available fingerings in combinations is another matter as some of them may be the more awkward ones to use and the reduced options will limit your choices to use more convenient variant fingerings for specific note-changes, including to notes in the middle octave.
Do check out Rick Wilson’s composite chart too as it has some things not in Rockstro (and misses some of his, I think). “Ben’s” F# (see above) isn’t in any of 'em, so far as I recall! Dunno where he got it. You may also find it helpful to peruse baroque (1-key) charts - see also on Rick’s site and for Charanga and fife fingerings see here. Terry McGee also has some charts… and there’s an old thread here exploring the 3rd 8ve on a Seery Pratten style keyless.