Hi everyone,
It seems that I’ve recently been getting more requests to do studio recordings as part of other musician’s albums, but I haven’t a clue how much to charge. I have a standard rate I use for parties and weddings, but I’m not sure if its in line with what players typically charge for studio work.
I’d very much appreciate if a few of y’all would PM me with what you typically charge for studio work.
Cheers and thanks,
Michael
I hope you are a member of the musicians’ union there. Some studios are very strict about that sort of thing.
djm
This is more for independent label stuff…
Kynch has experience in that department… he may drop in a say a few things.
Are you looking for a one-time payment as a studio musician or do you want something more with residuals as a guest artist ??
When I used to do studio stuff , at the advice of my sister (a recording engineer), I charged a $50 call-out fee and then an hourly rate. That was a few years back and I wasn’t all that professional so I didn’t charge too much for the hourly rate, so I reckon you could ask for more, given the uniqueness of your istrument too.
Cheers,
DavidG
Most Music contractors for film sound tracks, want ALL the money for themselves. I was surprised to learn that the Basic Rate for a Recording Session, was $249, for two hours. It jumped a little higher, if there were under ten musicians at the recording studio. This is the Musician’s Union in L.A. Some years ago I was approched by a composer for “The Mists of Avalon” he basicaly pumped me for information and then went and did the usual rip- off of the Carmina Burana, by the modern composer Carl Orff (ala the Excaliber film, circa 1984). That’s with a
Modern String Orchestra, Chorus going U(with umlauts) AHHH! And other silibent sylables. He actualy wanted Welsh language ooh-ahs! Another contractor phoned me and said “Eric Rigler and Richard Cook, are out of town the day we want to record the sound track, what would it cost to get you to Los Angeles? I replied” You know I’m at the other end of the state in Fort Bragg/Mendocino area, near the Oregon border, So I’d like $1000 for travel and the $249 session fee." “oh we can’t afford that”, said she, to wit: Missed Another Big Chance in Show Business! And this is for film that has a budget of MILLIONS of DOLLARS, so I’m supposed to pay them to play on it? Further converstations with Micheal O’ Donavan, an L.A. Basoon player, who has taken up the pipes, told me that he has got much more than $249, but it takes being known and some bargaining. He also told me that the String Synthesizers have captured the sound of strings so well, most of the String players don’t work very much these days. My friend Bob White in London (The Shipping News sound track piper) said that Graham Revel got to sample all the notes off of Eric Rigler’s chanter, now each note is on the Synth, “NO PIPERS NEED APPLY”" to that composer…I refuse to have my collection sampled on the grounds of Why Give the Enemy YOUR BULLETS! Now I got $750 for playing on Van Morrison’s “Beautiful Vision” Album (1982) I played on alot of the tracks but they ended up only using me on 2 of them. I improvised a Uilleann/ sax solo, (like I used to do in Rock Bands, on Tenor Sax, some of the bands I was in, covered Van’s songs…Like Dirk Hamilton (he had 3 albums on the Mercury label) and “the Celtic Ray” just happened to be in G major, how lucky was that? The corporate gigs were the most money I ever made doing meeting breaks for CSC, the Concours Group, Anderson Consulting,etc. 3 days $3,000+ travel, lodging, meals, Fed Express of Instruments, etc. I asked Tom Noddy the Bubble Man (lives in Santa Cruz) “How much do you go out for?”… “$1,000 a day” “Wow” I replied, “a thousand dollars a pop, huh?” He had been on the Tracey Ullman TV show(1987)…It just depends on what YOU think you’re worth and if the people have confidence in you, and VALUE you’re input, and then there’s the “Balls of Brass” factor. Good Luck Sean Folsom
So- out of all these numbers flying around… how much is the union’s cut?
(for doing what, exactly?) 
I can’t imagine how a synth could reproduce all the rich tones of a good chanter. In addition, Revel would need many years of studying Irish music in general and piping in particular in order to mimic properly the playing technique of a piper - ornamentation, colouring, timing, etc.
The AFM rate locally is 6%. I’m sure it runs more in the NYC, LA, and Vegas areas.
dave boling
The percentage of people in the world who would recognize “proper” playing is so small that I doubt this is a consideration for anyone in the general music industry. What sounds good is more important than what sounds right for a particular instrument. Many sounds you hear in modern soundtracks are multiple layers of sampled sounds to come up with something unique, with the focus being on what sounds right for the music/moment. Whether you could really produce such sounds on a real instrument is of no matter.
What does the union do for you? Not much. Bugger all, actually. However, union musicians will boycott studios and many stage venues that don’t strictly employ union musicians. It helps keep wages up (to a very small degree) so that scabs don’t come in and work for free just for the exposure/recognition, which would put professional musicians out of business.
djm
For doing what unions are supposed to do: helping make it possible for the people who actually generate something of value to be compensated fairly for it.
David is right.
Here in Music City, Nashville, the union that most musicians belong to is essential. It provides “protection” against those venues who would otherwise renege on contracts with musicians to play in public venues. It provides a conduct of behavior across several arenas…performance, recording, etc. Some venues will not hire musicians, or even let them play for show even for no compensation, unless they are union members.
Skip Cleavinger is a local piper who does a fair amount of studio and performance work in town. He is also probably a member of the local union. He may be able to provide some “real” numbers with regards to expected compensation for studio work.
Aren’t unions behind the push to pay royalties for any kind of music played?
And at what point would unions go to ensure that even a trad session were nothing but union members?
(sorry if I am hijacking the thread here, Joseph - let me know if I am)
$35.00 / hour
recording/mixing/mastering whatever
I would agree with David. I have made a significant portion of my living these past 6 or 7 years through performances and recording in Nashville, and most of this work has been through union regulated/monitored studio projects and performances. I can only speak from my experiences with one particular chapter of the American Federation of Musicians (AFM), but I have been very pleased in all respects. I was required to join the union by one particularly high profile artist. Most artists at that level are union members and their recording projects must involve union members only. Having said that, there is a lot of work that is “off the card,” that is, independent recordings that underneath the radar of the union. I do a lot of this work as well, and I have a fee for this work that is pretty much an industry standard amount.
The most important benefit I receive from my union membership is that of wage regulation for recording/performing. There is a minimum payment that is guaranteed. Likewise, recording session players who are considered “double scale” or even “triple scale” receive a higher wage in accordance with this session player status. I have had to turn to the union for assistance with extracting payment from some artists (to avoid these people, our AFM Local newsletter publishes the names of studios and artists who have not “made good” on payments to recording session players). I even received an unexpected check once because one of my recordings was being used on the road by an artist as background music in her concerts. This “new use” for the recording was discovered by an individual at AFM’s offices in NYC whose sole job responsibility is to monitor recordings and live performances for these situations. Finally, there is music performance trust fund that provides me with a dividend of sorts that is based on recording industry sales figures for the year. This ensures that the union musicians who played on the recordings continue to receive some benefit from their work after the CD is released. So, take my opinion for what it is worth. I’m just one individual working with the union in the music industry, but I have found the services provided by my Local to be very valuable in an industry and environment that can be very challenging at times. Hey, there is also a funeral benefit!
Finally, I would like to comment on the quality of musicianship required in recording session playing. Granted, most of the producers do not know much about traditional Irish piping, but some know a lot. Also, while there may be some producers and artists who want the sound of the uilleann pipes just for “the vibe” and care less about the quality of playing, I have found in my experiences that the producers bring what they know/want/expect from a musician in terms of pitch, tone, rhythm and phrasing into the session. It is expected that we bring these qualities forth in our playing just like any other instrumentalist…and I forgot to mention that you’re on the clock! Some things can be corrected in the editing process, but most of the producers I work worth don’t like to change much, as the performance begins to get the life sucked out of it when the engineers start moving things around and jacking with pitch. So, hats off to Eric Rigler, Todd Denman, Patrick D’Arcy, and all of the other recording session players who visit this list. It’s a tough gig stepping into a studio with an artist, producer(s), engineers, etc., etc. The point of all this verbage being that most of the good recording session players are also quite good players in general.
Just an opinion. Thanks for reading. Michael, I sent you a PM.
Not everyone has Peter Grant as a manager.
… nope, it was hijacked prior to your last posting. For what it is worth, I don’t recall reading a single post yet that hasn’t strayed a mite from the original topic… speaking of which, the last time I played professionally, I charged $250.00 to show up, and $100.00 every hour after the first two… and I think Michael’s playing is worth at least that, if not more.
Union notes: In 1969, I was playing sax on the stage with Mike Bloomfield at the Fillmore West, and you could NOT get on the stage without a union card, so I joined Local #6 San Francisco. I was proud of being in the union, but then I went off to Europe, and let it lapse. I “Re-uped” in 1975 and got listed for alot of the “unusual” instruments I played at the time. I had no referals, and a man who phoned my home to hire me for a private gig, said he had called the Union hall first, and was told that they had no pipers (it was a GHB gig) I complained to the Union officer, manning the phones, and he seemed unconcerned, as I wasn’t giging through the usual “Pigeon Holes” you know, the big 3, Rock, Jazz, and Classical, In Nashville it would be the big 4, with C&W in the lead…In 1976, I went to the SF. Union hall, and picked up my check for some work I did on an Alan Davies" album (that was never to my knowledge, released) Alan was a song writter for Cat Stevens, and Jon Mark, another British “Tax Exile” had refered me and Sharon(on harp) for the one Trad tune that Alan wanted, “Spenser the Rover”. At that time, San Francisco was rapidly De-Unionizing and the man did tell me that if I did any more recording that year, I’d have to reactivate my card, “how much for the dues, etc.?” “oh $450”. I said I’d pass on that, they did take out the 6%. Same thing in 1981 with the Van Morrison recording. Well I’ve heard of Local # 1000, for all the musicians who would normaly “fall through the cracks”, doing the folkie scene, I’d like to see some of the pro’s and con’s of that effort I do believe in Unions if they go the MILE. Sean Folsom
Have you looked into joining something like ASCAP?
From the research I have done, you could go a few different ways: charge for royalty, a flat fee, or a combination. I’ve heard of all of these. Small timers do projects for as little as $150 an hour, while people who do strictly studio work do much more. Supply and demand thing.
Being that you’re more professional, you could probably expect more, especially since finding an uilleann piper who is willing to drop everything is not easy.
Good luck to you!
Yes ASCAP and BMI, are good for composers, arrangers, and so on,The Business of Music, and It’s a complicated LEGAL business, there are many books that cover all the regs and rules as they go to press and then…some new wrinkle that comes up that a clever lawyer figured out. Paddy Maloney figured out he wasn’t getting the " Mechanicals" a certain type of composer royalty on publishing, either in print, or sound recording, of each unit( single disc or book). as the Irish tunes were listed as in the Public Domain, with no composer credit, the Recording company absorbed the extra money. Ergo, Paddy started copyrighting the tunes as his compositions, I believe there was a BIG DISCUSSION about the copy- rights on P.D. tunes back in the 1990s, and in tiny Brittain, it had some impact on sessions? Can you see the court when you bring out O’Neill’s 1001 Irish Tunes and say, “Were you around when this tune, which you copy- righted in 2002, was oridginaly published in 1907?” I don’t think for a minute that Paddy would take anybody to court, but there are plenty of other people out there who would. Yes, you need an Arts lawyer BEFORE you sign (or do) anything! Sean Folsom