One reason why I loved played the flute was because you barely touched it with your lips and it was a relatively easy to clean instrument, being made of silver.
I do love vertical and horizontal whistles and flutes, as well as recorders.
I just got a plastic bass recorder to replace my wooden one which is in service. Now I’m shocked at how much moisture condenses inside the bocal pipe, or in the instrument head.
I live in a temperature climate - it’s about 16 degrees outdoors and I’m playing indoors. The moisture actually fired back at my face when I blew!
It’s not saliva either - since I use a bocal on a recorder.
I assume the bocal is brass or another metal? Does the condensation ease after you’ve been playing a while?
I’ve owned two bass recorders. One plastic, but no bocal, the other maple with a brass bocal. I did not have any unusual condensation issues with either. I play two sets of wooden recorders and one set rendered in plastic. I don’t find the plastic any more susceptible to moisture than the wood instruments but YMMV. Environmental conditions have quite a bit to do with it, for sure, but I think that the bocal design can contribute as well. Some enter the head from the side of the head cap and some from the top of the head cap. I have no empirical data to prove or disprove my thinking so I won’t go there. A cool metal bocal would certainly condense moisture out of warm breath under cooler conditions and gravity will control where much of it goes - back down hill. It might be worth insulating the bocal tube with foam pipe insulation, insulating tape or even vinyl tubing so that it holds the warmth better.
No no …I’m playing a bass recorder at the moment. It has a double L bend bocal (blowing pipe). And the condensation it collects is crazy. I could make soup with it!
I’ve only found this particularly with bass recorders with bocals - I only play bass recorders with bocals. The knick style makes me want to bend it back into straight shape so I get annoyed looking at the kink in the knick!
That’s a good point about the materials. Yes - both of mine have metal chrome coloured bocals (one more rusted than the other. The condensation on the plastic bass recorder is terrible. I produce a rate of 6 drops of water/condensation per 3 minutes of play. By the end of 15 minutes, I have stop, otherwise the sound is all muffled, and the head under the cap, is also covered in condensation!
Have I just got a very sweaty recorder?!
I’ll try insulating the bocal pipe. Now to find something to insulate it with and see if that helps.
Btw - I’m really like my cheap plastic bass recorder. It’s a school type and it makes a nice deep sound. In fact, it sounds better than my broken Roessler.
Tim gave me a link to Musiciansfriend store - which sold those for around $312. That’s a steal.
I got this one:
It’s just a schools branded one. I’m happy with the easy going sound. A Mollenhauer (and healthy Roessler in its prime) it is not, but no one’s pointed out that it sounds different from what I used to play. Guess I notice, but not others. The Aulos ones are nice, but hedging my bets, I’m hoping my repair bill is less than the cost of the Aulos…I have a maple bass recorder and a plastic one now. Finally! A bass recorder for playing outdoors on the top storey of buildings and car parks!
Take the head of your recorder to a good hardware store and see what types of plastic/vinyl tubing they have that will fit in place of the bocal. A flexible bocal is really nice since it gives you a lot more freedom in how you hold the recorder. Once, for a laugh, I made a vinyl bocal about 4 feet long and wrapped it around my body when playing the bass.
My Roessler, has a fantastic circular bocal mouthpiece - that means it can go in anyway. I’m okay with the bocal swinging - I usually add some double sided tape, so it doesn’t just swing with no tension at all. This way, I can hold the bass recorder really comfortably and angle the bocal into my mouth.
The schools plastic bass recorder I have - has a flat bocal mouthpiece. I have to twist it on the metal to get it to fit, and it is more restricted.
If you are all thinking that the metal is causing condensation then this seems like an ideal solution. I didn’t think of PVC piping, but maybe that makes sense, since I don;t get anything like this level on condensation on any other wind instrument!
That’s enough to get noticed isn’t it. Bocals which are free to rotate do give more adjustment to both your playing position and allowing you to manage the condensation a bit IMO. Try insulating the bocal tube and see if that helps. Plumbing suppliers in the northern climates should have a variety of foam type insulation that protect water pipes from freezing. It’s cheap. It comes in a range of diameters narrow to… I have used it to insulate aluminum whistles on-stage between tunes. Vinyl tubing could help too. Most hardware store stock some sizes. Specialty aquarium stores stock a wide variety of sizes too.
Paul, pictures would be nice! I like the vinyl bocal concept. Works for high whistles too.
A little.
I never gave it much thought, but condensation would explain why it seems to occur more on cool days.
It only becomes a problem if a drop condenses on the windway blade, as sometimes happens. I can hear the difference in sound and tell when it’s happening.
Doesn’t seem to be a problem with the overtone flutes. Of course, they are a lot longer, and the moisture has time to evaporate. The big overtone flute warms up nicely in the sunshine, since I wrapped black duct-tape around it.
My Goldie and Gen style whistles don’t seem to be prone to dribbling. My Parks Every Whistle on the other hand dribbles like a tap with a knackered washer…although that could be 'cos I use it for practice far more than any of the other whistles…and for intensive periods.
I’ve only encountered this with plastic recorders when doing a lot of instrument switching, and once when playing my greatbass outdoors in a beer garden at night when it was far below freezing. One nice thing about the transparent plastic Yamahas is that you can see how much condensation you’re getting.
And of course with the Overton low G that I long since got rid of. Completely unplayable if you need to start fast in a cold environment (which is the way I usually play and the country I live in) - it just chokes with condensation so your tune turns to a gurgle in the first bar. That aluminium block is the most boneheaded, braindead piece of musical instrument design I’ve ever had to deal with. And Goldie is STILL doing it that way.
I was flying on the plane today. It dawned on me when the air hostess got up to demonstrate the flight safety procedures with the flotation life jacket and emergency oxygen supply, that the tubing from the oxygen supply would be perfect for my bass recorder bocal
Well it’s still producing moisture like you wouldn’t believe! I’m getting droplets of condensed water forming on the chiff. It is a lot cooler today though, but I’ve never seen anything like it. I wonder if this is a property of plastic recorder, metal bocal and the cold environment? In a few minutes of playing, I never get this level of condensation on silver flutes, even playing for 1 hour.
Maybe I need to have an advert and sign: “miracle river Gangi bass recorder - produces water mysteriously during melancholic melodies…”
The good thing about a metal bocal is that it’s rigid. When you pick the instrument up you know exactly where the mouthpiece will be relative to your mouth. A flexible plastic one will need another hand to position it in your mouth. I belong to the fastest-gun-in-the-West school of instrument doubling and I couldn’t live with that.
I’d try to get the top end of the instrument warmer. Point an anglepoise light at it, for example.
It is tubing which fits over the bocal - then you apply a hairdryer to it, and it shrinks to fit.
It might be a pain getting it off, but it would certainly insulate the metal bocal.
You’re right about the metal in the room. This morning, the condensation on the bocal was nowhere near as bad as last night (8.5 degrees C).
The other thing is, I’m sure the shape of the bocal mouthpiece is rather too large for me and it’s definitely stimulating salivation. I was playing on the sofa, lying flat, and noticed this. Possibly why, most rim end flute players and fipple players (fipples are narrower) aren’t experiencing this.
The size of the bocal mouthpiece is over 1cm wide - this is huge compared to my normal wooden bass recorder’s bocal (in for repair). If I buy a new bass recorder in the future, I’m going to have to check the size of the bocal mouthpiece - it really hurts when you accidentally push it against your teeth! Guess there would be some advantages to a flexible pipe bocal then …!
Condensation is definitely a problem for most fipple flutes. I only have one recorder which never clogs, and that is a Vincent Bernolin resin alto recorder. There must be something about the windway design, but condensation has never been an issue for me with this one, which is why it is the one I prefer when playing in cold locations. One of the joys of summer in Italy is that condensation is no longer an issue.
You could try running the bocal under hot water before playing the instrument.
It really depends on how long you play them. I usually play them off and on during the day, but sometimes I play them for hours. When I do that they become dripping with the um.. Moisture Factor. Yuck!
When playing for the Morris, long & loud - my High D and I excrete massive disgusting amounts of liquid. The Dixon used to clog almost immediately, my new (fabulous!) Syn copes much better, but I still need to do the quick-suck maneouvre regularly, always hoping that the audience have their eyes on the dancers…
