How much is the whistle and how much is the player?

Whistle
1

OK, this has probably been done to death, but I’m gonna put it out there yet again . . .

As one who has experimented with several different whistles, and having gotten a bit depressed listening to folks on Clips and Snips tear up (in a good way) a cheap Generation, Walton’s or Oak, I have to wonder how much of the good sound is the musician and how much is the instrument. I haven’t yet had a high-end whistle, but I have many low-end ones that to me don’t sound good. I’ve taped myself, and I sound MUCH better on the Dixon, Clarkes, Susatos (in lower keys than D), or Sweetones than the Generations (except the Bb). My Clare and Waltons are OK, and most of the Gens in my collection would pain the neighborhood dogs.

BTW, Peter Laban, you really make that Generation sing, as do many others of you.

I guess what I’m wondering is should I invest $ in a higher-end whistle for the consistency of it, or should I keep working with some of the cheapos (excluding of course the ones that are badly out of tune or unplayable)? Listening to some of you, there is evidently value in getting to know a particular whistle. Do some of them get better with improvement of musicianship?

All that being said, I still anxiously await the arrival of the Burke D Pro.

What is your experience on this, those of you who have travelled this particular avenue?

Thanks,
Cindy

2

I would say that the player is the larger part of it (assuming the whistle isn’t a total dog…completely out of tune, or something like that). That’s not to say that some whistles don’t have an inherently more beautiful tone, but give Will Millar a Generation and give me one of my high-enders, and Will’s still going to sound terrific and I’m still going to sound…er…considerably less terrific.

Redwolf

3

Hi Cindy,
It is true that a good player can make the most humble of instruments sound great. However when you are learning, a crappy instrument will make learning much more difficult. There are good cheap whistles, but there are an awful lot of bad cheap whistles out there. Unless you can get a reasonably good player to play your instruments and give you an opinion, it is going to be hard for you to know how much is you and how much is the instrument. If you have a Burke on order that is great as they are lovely instruments. In the mean time, find you favourite cheap whistle and just work with that for a while. Often a player needs to work with an instrument for a couple of weeks or more before learning how to get the best tone out of it.
Instead of trying to playing tunes right away, play long notes in different octaves and try to get the best tone you can (by adjusting your breath pressure). Then try some slow tunes working on tone rather than finger technique. Another trick - practice in the bathroom (or other resonent place like a church; college stairwell etc.) . Let us know how it goes, good luck.
Sue

4

I think it’s deffinatly the player… like 90% player to 10% whistle. And I believe there is some merrit in bonding with your whistle. You can’t buy and switch whistles every week and expect to settle in. Whistles are like ping pong paddles. If you ever become a ping pong master you’ll know what I’m talking about. You can still play very well with somebody elses paddle or a different style but to really be at your peak you need to be with your paddle. It takes alot of practise and time to dial in a paddle so nothing will ever be overnight. But once you hone and dial in a paddle all the techniques, pressure, and power that you use become amazingly precise. You switch paddles and it goes away slightly. Same could be said for whistles. I couldn’t find my gen (the best whistle in teh world and those who have tried will back me up) so I had to play my sindt(which is supposedly a better whistle) and everything sounded a bit off and dead. I found my gen tonight and all the life and character of my whistle playing is back to normal. But not all cheapies work like that so you have to find a good one, and you have to give them time. I didn’t like mine when I first got it but after a tweak and a break in period I don’t think there is better whistle in the world.

I’ll never understand some of the people on the board who buy all these whistles and don’t individually give them the time and effort they need. I’m glad that they enjoy their hobby and they get pleasure out of it but it seems a waste. Oh well, I guess I don’t get it cause I only play 5 whistles.

If you really want to try and figure out the mystery of the cheapies… buy about 6 gens and try the different kinds (not keys) and buy a couple of oaks and give them a shot. If you don’t like em as is, tweak em. And if you still don’t like em, put them aside for about a month or two and then retry them. Sooner or later one or two are going to grow on you and you’ll find richness and character in them that aren’t evident in other whistles.

5

When I win the lottery, I’ll buy a box with 250 Generations, just to keep the best…

Honestly, most of it is the player. Do what MurphyStout says. There’s a certain quality in the sound of cheapos that high end whistles just don’t have. If you want to play high-end whistles, get one. If you want to sound like the people who sound great on Generation whistles, well, then practice on Generation whistles.

And don’t believe anything anybody on this board tells you, as we are all ignorant beginners ourselves, comparatively speaking.

6

As much as this whistlemaker would like to tell you that it’s all in the whistle, I have to agree that the player is the major contributor to a good performance assuming that the whistle in question is not total trash. Look at what Mary Bergin and others have done with the humble Gen D.
A good whistle is sort of humbling. If you have a really good whistle, be it hand made or mass produced, you can’t blame YOUR inadequacies on the whistle…

7

A crappy whistle will make anyone sound crappy but you can sound just as crappy on a good whistle if you don’t know what you’re doing. I’d say it’s 75% whistler and 25% whistle.

8

I agree that it’s mostly the player. However, IMO it’s very important to have a whistle that you like. The only way a whistle will make you sound better is if you like it enough that you play a lot. You might also think about sticking to one whistle for a few weeks or months.

9

Thanks for the insights, everyone. MurphyStout, I have tried to tweak my Gens, and had little luck. The Dixon is the one I come back to, but maybe I’ll break in the Clare as I like its tone. I learn a lot from taping myself as the tape recorder doesn’t lie!

10

I have to echo Murphystouts advice, stick with one whistle. Find one you like off the bat & try to keep that one as your “main gun”.

11

I can tell you why I have a fair collection of whistles. Two reasons, really. One is that they are all individuals, each with its own unique sound. There are days when I’m in the mood for the sound of an Elfsong and days when I’m in the mood for the sound of a Busman and days when nothing but my Hoover Whitecap will do. I love getting a new whistle and learning its nuances and special character.

The other reason is related to the first…some whistles are just better in certain situations than others. I have some I favor for slow airs; others I favor for dance tunes. Some are better than others for outdoor performances. I don’t play in sessions, but we know from discussions here that there are definite advantages to certain types of whistles in those situations as well.

I do think it’s a waste of time if one isn’t going to spend the time to learn each new whistle’s character. I generally spend a lot of time with a new one…especially with those that don’t exactly sound like heaven the first time I play them…because each one has a learning curve.

I also think it gets to be a problem if one has the idea that a different whistle will make them sound “just like so-and-so.” I think that’s a trap some newbies fall into…they’re not sounding like they want to sound, and they think a “better” whistle will help. Sometimes that is the case, if the whistle they have just isn’t a good one, but more often it’s practice and patience they need, rather than a new whistle. And, of course, a “better” whistle doesn’t necessarily mean a more expensive one.

I do think, in general, it’s a good idea for a new player to find a decent, playable whistle and stick with it. I also think, however, that a more advanced player can benefit from playing different whistles. As you learn to make minute adjustments to your technique to accommodate a different instruments idiosyncrasies, your overall technique tends to improve.

It’s certainly possible to go overboard on whistle collecting. I tend to find new homes for whistles I find I just don’t play much, or at all. In fact, I’ll often carry one or two of these in my gig bag, because it’s so satisfying to be able to just hand one to an interested someone and say “here, you can keep this one.”

Ah well…there’s my WhOA in a nutshell! :wink:

Redwolf

12

[quote=“brewerpaul”]Look at what Mary Bergin and others have done with the humble Gen D.quote]

I agree that a great player (pro entertainer) can do great things, even with relatively inferior instruments. I have to wonder though…

Do they REALY use off the shelf whistles?

I use NASCAR racing as my example. They drive a lot of cars that have names that are the same as showroom vehicles that are available, Thunderbird or whatever. I dare you to find one of those high performance cars in the showroom though.

I am sure that the companies that provide their instruments to these high profile advertisers make sure that the instrument provided is better than the rest and that those people do not spend their time sorting through cases of them to find just the right one!

13

Mary Bergin did use off the peg Generation whistles, now she uses a John Sindt. But both Feadog Stain albums where all generations, almost unbelievable to some people.

14

Assuming that the whistle is at least playable, it’s definitely the player that makes the difference. Each of us at any point in time has a certain level of expertise we’ve reached and that level will be evident and equal from whistle to whistle. Speaking for myself, I never hoped to sound better by playing on better whistles; I just love to collect those that I feel rewarded by playing. That’s almost an intangible, but there are certain tonal qualities and aspects of playability and workmanship that appeal to me.

Actually, I’ve noted that I sound much more the same playing different whistles when I listen to tunes I record for playback, than I think I do when “inspired” playing certain whistles. Also, sometimes all these discussions about the characteristics get a bit too technical (though fun for many) for me, because bottom line is that I seem to adjust quickly to various whistles by feeling out the best approach (e.g., formation and power of air flow, hole coverage, etc.) to get the right sound consistently.

Anyway, whatever your take on it, it sure is all fun, aint it?

Regards,

Philo

15

Philo wrote:

Assuming that the whistle is at least playable, it’s definitely the player that makes the difference. Each of us at any point in time has a certain level of expertise we’ve reached and that level will be evident and equal from whistle to whistle. Speaking for myself, I never hoped to sound better by playing on better whistles; I just love to collect those that I feel rewarded by playing. That’s almost an intangible, but there are certain tonal qualities and aspects of playability and workmanship that appeal to me.

Actually, I’ve noted that I sound much more the same playing different whistles when I listen to tunes I record for playback, than I think I do when “inspired” playing certain whistles. Also, sometimes all these discussions about the characteristics get a bit too technical (though fun for many) for me, because bottom line is that I seem to adjust quickly to various whistles by feeling out the best approach (e.g., formation and power of air flow, hole coverage, etc.) to get the right sound consistently.

Anyway, whatever your take on it, it sure is all fun, aint it?

I think you hit on the key, Philo, is the whistle playable? In some cases of my collection, the answer is no, after tweaking, trying different breath techniques etc., they’re just better used as weapons, decorations, or whatever. I just have to go through and cull out the dreadful ones. And you’re right, I probably don’t sound THAT different with the different whistles–I need to record myself playing different ones a bit more to see if that’s the case. I do want to have one I like (as I do the Dixon), but I think it would improve my technique to experiment with the Clare and Walton’s.

And yes, it is fun!

Thanks everyone!
Cindy

16

I’m glad to see that most people think that the player is more important than the instrument when it comes to sounding good - I agree. Unfortunately too many music students seem to think that a different instrument will make them sound better rather than hours of practice.
However, as a music teacher with over 30 years experience, I have found that a beginning student is definitely held back by an inferior instrument.
Yes Mary Bergin and Paddy Maloney and John Skelton all recorded on Generations - old Generations that they had owned for years. You notice that they have now switched to John Sindt’s instruments. There has been much discussion on the Board about how the old Generations were much better instruments before they were “improved” some years back.
My point is that if you have a good Generation, you need no other whistle to sound good. I know that a lot of people here have their favourite brand of whistle and that is great, but I recommend Generations to all my beginning students.

17

both equal, i love my burkes!!

18

A good player can make a bad whistle sound good, that’s true enough.

However, a good whistle can make a so-so player sound better.

This I know from personal experience. :slight_smile:

When you find a whistle you like, stick to it. It’s like anything else. You need to know the instrument well in order to play well on it. Don’t jump from whistle to whistle.

Good luck.

Mike

19

My first whistle was a Generation D that a friend gave to me. I hated the buzzy, weak tone on it and thought it was probably one of the bad ones. I then spent many hours learning the basics on a Susato and a Sweettone. Then I spent many hours getting my new Oak under control. Now I have gone back to fiddling around with that old Gen and it doesn’t sound so bad any more. Now that I have practiced with it a bit, I actually like the thing now (not as much as that Oak though.) That definatly proved to me that it was the player that was bad, not the whistle.

20

Is it the tweak that is giving you problems? If not, sometimes you just need to break a whistle in. They age very much like wine. I disliked my whistle at first but I kept giving it chances every now and then and it began to sound better. Go for the sound you want, if you like teh high end sound go for that, and if you like the cheapie sound stick with it and it will pay off eventually.