I have an old ersatz Rudall from 1840, probably. Made by
an apprentice in the Rudall-works and shipped to NYC,
where it was sold at Atwill’s music salon. I bought it
from Dave M and it’s really a neat flute. I play it sometimes
with the original headjoint and sometimes with the
Byrne headjoint. Cocus, silver keys. I figure it probably
sounds like an old Rudall, which is a nice thought.
I can go up to the third octave A, and I wonder how high the old Rudalls
went. I know they weren’t set up for ITM, which doesn’t much care
about the third octave. They were set up to play high up, I’ve read.
But this one doesn’t go up terrifically high. Of course maybe it’s me,
but I don’t think so.
Anyhow how high up did old original Rudalls go? Is one of the reasons
the Boehm won the flute wars that the simple system keyed flutes
couldn’t duplicate its range?
I note that Terry McGee’s 8-key fingering chart only goes up to 3rd octave A. Never played that high, myself. Perhaps some of the harmonic fingerings would reach further?
3 fully chromatic 8ves C to C plus maybe a couple of altissimo notes above that depending on the flute, how it is set up and the player’s proficiency. No need to look at scores, there are fingering charts. I’m in work & on my mobile so can’t link anything, but can add links and I could e-mail something this evening if you wish, Jim. It’ll be you, not the flute, both technique and the necessary knowledge, in all likelihood.
The simple system 3rd 8ve fingerings are no more awkward than Bohm’s. Also, if one knows the fingerings and has the embouchure technique one can get all of that range even with the stopper in low-end optimising position (21 or 22 mm from embouchure centre), a few mm further out than a ‘classical’ full range optimising position. But you can easily try moving your stopper in to 18 or 19 mm or even further in to see if it helps.
Bugbear moment: unless it has a clearly associated provenance, that flute is in no sense a ‘Rudall’ nor a rip-off of one. What some now term ‘Rudall’ (style) flutes were not, in their time a design limited to or especially associated with that firm. They were the ‘normal’, standard ‘old flute’ (i.e. not Bohm) and loads of London makers made similar looking and often very good flutes whether or not bearing any maker’s stamps.
3 octaves are simple enough on mine. The top C sounds very easily. Took a bit of practice, mind, but now I can blow it as gently as any other note. Just as well, since use of all these notes is required from Grade VI up, and Grade VI is my next grade, which I plan to take in December.
I’ve done quite a few demonstration videos of flutes I have repaired giving full 3 8ve chromatic scales, some on YT, some on FB. I’m not fluent in those high fingerings to play complicated pieces using them, nor is my embouchure well disciplined to them, but I can get them.
Am I right that the standard Bohm flute plays easily well into the fourth octave?
If so, am I rt in thinking they did this by 1860 or so (or sooner).
Wondering if this greater range
affected the outcome of the competition tween simple system and Bohm for the
flute-niche in 19th century English orchestras, which I take it our flutes lost
decisively by the 1870s.
I’m no Boehm system guy, but I’ve spoken to plenty. A professional (classical) player of my acquaintance has told me that, apart from when she did her flute exams many years ago, she has only ever been required to play top C (third octave) once, and has never even tried to play any notes above that. She has no idea of the fingerings for such notes, or even if they exist. I’ll bet they do, but there ya go, apparently it’s not needed for classical playing. This leads me to suggest that the range of the modern Boehm flute and the old 8-key flutes is identical. Vague thinking here, but I’m sure I read somewhere that one of the points of resistance to the new system was that the old flutes had more opportunities for different fingerings in the third octave and hence more chances of playing in tune. Jem, have I remembered that right?
I’m pretty sure from all that I have ever read (a lot!) that (non-existent) extended range had nothing to do with Bohm’s design’s success. It was all about more consistent intonation and volume/tone response between notes throughout the range, stronger, more easily attained tone and easier fingering in a wider range of key-signatures.
Ben
more-or-less.
The nominal range of both simple system and Bohm flutes and all the assorted C19th variants and hybrids is 3 8ves. I have somewhere a chart of altissimo fingerings up to G in the 4th 8ve for jazz (or charanga) on Bohm flutes which I was given many years ago, but they are not considered part of its standard tessitura, nor are they “easy”; they definitely fall under “extended techniques” along with quarter tones, overtones, whistle tones, fancy articulations, etc. You can see some of them here. Charanga fluters on either system go well into the 4th 8ve, but push the cork right in and sacrifice the quality and intonation of and don’t much use the fundamental register. Here’s a charanga chart. I note none of these seem to go above G or G# in the 4th 8ve, so it is apparently only circa half of that 8ve which is available. The French 5/6 key flutes favoured for charanga are of course in many senses very similar to our C19th 8-key English flutes and derivatives.
The earliest 8-key chart Rick Wilson illustrates, Monzani’s of 1813, gives the full, standard 3 8ves to top C. There are plenty of other historic charts available on Rick’s website to illustrate C19th expectations, and of course his practical composite chart for simple systems which gives fingerings up to G in the 4th 8ve, though not necessarily for English style flutes. Rockstro (writing in the later C19th) gives up to 4th 8ve Eb for English flutes with specific reference to an 1827 R&R, though he comments: The notes above c’‘’’ have very little musical value, but the practice of them, in moderation, tends to strengthen the lip. If you want a Word doc of scans of Rockstro’s 8-key charts, I’ll happily e-mail it to you, Jim. You could also have Langey’s chart (3 8ves).
Without actually going to check, I think I recall aright that the quotation Ben refers to about 3rd 8ve facility and the greater availability of useful alternative fingerings being better in some respects on simple system than on Bohm is from Rockstro.
Doing some serious work up there might well improve your embouchure, Jim!
And if I had a penny for every time I’ve linked those charts on Rick Wilson’s site…
Are the Rockstro charts with those altissimo fingerings on Rick Wilson’s site then? If not, please would you e-mail to me as well. (I don’t think you’ve given me those yet …)
Ardal Powell’s The Flute is the best overview of the instrument’s history I’ve encountered (in part because it does not take a a simplistic view of the flute’s development from simple-system ‘inferiority’ to Boehm system ‘perfection,’ as at least one other history of the flute does).
