No one has mentioned regular use of the D#/Eb key to vent most or all of the open holes. Is is only Jem who advocates this? Or only on antiques?
Curious in Dartmouth,
Steve
No, I do it too, but as much because that’s where my pinkie wants to go as for any venting effect (though it’s still useful for tuning some third-octave notes), and not on E because my E’s not tuned for it.
I do use all the keys on my six key flute, although I rarely use them at the local session (because almost all the tunes there are “whistle friendly”).
There’s definitely a difference between how I use the flute when playing Irish trad versus Baroque/Classical/Romantic music. Classical music demands a lot more fluency on the keys, and the articulation and ornamentation is different. Although I got the flute primarily for Traditional music, playing Classical music is a fun way to get the hang of using the keys and has also helped me better understand why the flute is designed the way it is (like why there are two F keys).
Regarding the Bb keys, the thumb Bb should be able to handle all situations, but sometimes it does feel pretty awkward. Trills and alternating between Ab and Bb come to mind… The RH Bb would be good for those (I’m guessing, since I only have the thumb Bb) but you’ll still need the thumb Bb for alternating between Bb and RH notes.
I vent the Eb key a lot when playing Classical, but for Traditional playing I don’t since it impedes rolls and things.
Not on my flute, you don’t. Swivel R1 on its hole to hit the Bb touch or rock it to hit the G# and I can alternate freely between either and any RH note, though we were able to set my R1 keys closer than normal to the hole because my offset L3 makes space to move the block for the Bb higher…
So, OK, no ten-fingered player’s going to build a flute quite like mine, but sure more standard layouts can still benefit from keys fine-tuned to the player!
I like the one key traverso - very elegant and interesting to use one key for complete chromatism!
My favourite flute has 10 keys - same as your 6 keys + the 2 lower ones for the low C notes, except the R3 and L3 are acoustically correct for their positions so these require 2 keys to operate (it’s called a Siccama design, although it has a Pratten bore). It’s all the flute I need - at times the low C keys get in the way. I started off with a 6 key flute too.
Definitely enjoy a 6 key (minimum). The acoustic shading or veiling from the lack of vented keys does work for me, although I like the choice of choosing fully vented key, or forked fingering than a 4 key. 6 keys are a bit like having a mini-cooper to run around town - they do most thing well although it’s always nice to have a vintage Caterham even if it’s not the bread and butter…
Not quite getting your drift here… with the only differences between standard four- and six-keys being the C key and duplicate (long) F of the six-key, there’s only really one note (C) on the four-key where you don’t have the same choice of tone colours, and none if you have a four-key (like mine) with C nat thumb hole. And sure, I’d probably have gone for six (or eight) keys too if I could reach them all, but not because of some questionable shading/veiling limitation of my four. But perhaps that’s not what you meant?
Yes…the long C natural key and the long F key are the 2x extra keys over the 4 key design.
This makes sufficient tonal shading (or unveiling) significant enough for me. The cross-fingered C [oxxooo] is fine, although choosing between this and a C natural key is even finger! So the C natural key, also sharpens the C sharp (compared to the 4 key flute).
The double F key of the 6 key flute, allows double venting of the 3rd octave D. Maybe 1x F key vented isn’t enough sometimes, even if it isn’t designed for this.. I find the long F very handy (fingery?) when trying to do what the short F can’t do. The 6 key has a huge design advantage …not going back to a 4 key. It seems to fit in somewhere like a 6 key want-to-be, but just modified a little more than a baroque. Of course, if you’re majoring in diatonic music, it’s no problem settling for a 4 key, but then, may an Eb key is the only one really required?, which brings it down to maybe a 1 key non-traverso!)
5 key flutes (without the long F) are extremely irritating for me. I have one and spent forever trying to rebuild its block, and then getting a key to fit. In the end, it just broke off and I bought a 6 key 
OK, starting to get you now…
Aye, see my comments above re. ‘I probably play OXXOOO and OXOXXX (especially the latter when I want to cut it) more than thumb hole C and use the thumb hole for venting C# as much as anything else.’
The double F key of the 6 key flute, allows double venting of the 3rd octave D. Maybe 1x F key vented isn’t enough sometimes, even if it isn’t designed for this..
OK, hadn’t considered double-venting F keys for anything (because I can’t!).
I find the long F very handy (fingery?) when trying to do what the short F can’t do.
For fingering reasons, sure, and I’d have had it if I could use it. But 1. you’re talking fingering (not tone colouring) now and 2. it’s amazing what you can do with a well-implemented short F when you can’t use the long!
Of course, if you’re majoring in diatonic music, it’s no problem settling for a 4 key, but then, may an Eb key is the only one really required?, which brings it down to maybe a 1 key non-traverso!)
No, I’m going to argue with that because there’s no way I can get the same F, G# and Bb on larger holes without the keys!
5 key flutes (without the long F) are extremely irritating for me.
And perfect for me if you take my four-key + thumb hole as effectively five. Though I’ll repeat (yet again) that I’d have had the long F too if I could use it! 
understood 
The problems with half-holing, especially if you’re reaching for the 3rd octave tend to show its strain with the lack of true venting. Are you playing mostly celtic music? I guess that doesn’t go much into the 3rd octave realm. Actually I was just working on Christopher Ball’s music from the Scottish Hebrides … and you’re right. For example, in the diminuendo from 2nd octave descending, G - Fnat - D c nat D, the cross fingered oxxooo makes perfect sense!
But if you can afford an extra C key, it won’t do any harm for music like Colin Hand’s Tarantella which holds phrases at 2nd octave C …!
Yes I definitely like large hole flutes too. Fingering (cross-fingering) and tone colouring go together for a 1 key traverso. I don’t really know how it works out for large bore flute like a Pratten. I can’t cover large toneholes (unless it’s a fully keyed or a Sicamma 10 key) and instead, end up fighting just to get any note out at R2 or below, without enjoying the freedom of working on the tonal shading. But that’s another longwinded story which no one needs to hear 
10 key Siccama kind of lets me do what others have no problem doing on a 1 key
PS - what kind of 5 key flute have you? My 5 key is an English 19th century used-to-be-6 key no-name.
Not really half-holing at all on my keyed flute but, sure, venting third-octave notes in whatever ways (trial-and-error keyed/forked fingerings) bring them in on my flute.
Are you playing mostly celtic music?
Aye, (depending on your definition of ‘Celtic’) more than anything else, but by no means exclusively.
I guess that doesn’t go much into the 3rd octave realm.
No, but there’s plenty else that does!
For example, in the diminuendo from 2nd octave descending, G - Fnat - D c nat D, the cross fingered oxxooo makes perfect sense!
I’m playing OXOXXX more than OXXOOO (though I use both and my thumb hole) because it’s less stuffy.
But if you can afford an extra C key, it won’t do any harm for music like Colin Hand’s Tarantella which holds phrases at 2nd octave C …!
And I use my thumb hole more for second-octave C than for first.
PS - what kind of 5 key flute have you? My 5 key is an English 19th century used-to-be-6 key no-name.
Copley custom four-key. Like I said, effectively a five-key because of the thumb hole, but all arranged the way it is through missing a left-hand finger. And I’m still intending to get some video sometime to show how well it all works…
6 keys, most used in one set would be G#, C-nat and F (Coleraine Jig) Never feel handicapped when playing my keyless Murray, except i don’t join in the Coleraine
I currently play a keyless flute, but I had a 6 key flute for many years. The keys I used in order of frequency were Cnat, long F, G#, F short.
Have 8, use 4. In order G#, Fnat, B flat, E flat. I prefer to cross finger C since I have a couple keyless flutes I really like and don’t want to have to change the way I play from flute to flute except for accidentals and some exceptions.
You don’t use both Fnat keys? As for the Cnat, on my 8-key I use the key sometimes and sometimes not, as I also have a flute without Cnat key (it has other keys), so need to be reasonably fluent with the cross-fingered Cnat.
Also, while I use the c nat key a lot, there are occasionally fingerings and transitions that are facilitated by
crossfingerings.
When I played flute- 35 years of it- I used all 8 keys of my c1860 flute, yes even Low C and Low C#.
I played Irish music yes, but I also played that flute in an “International Folk Dance” band (Israeli, Bulgarian, Hungrarian, etc music) which often required using keys I didn’t ordinarily use in Irish music such as the Bb and Eb keys.
I have two 6 keyed flutes, one 8 keyed and one 11 keyed. I regularly use the 6 keys. Many would contend (depending upon what kinds of music you’re playing) that you don’t need any keys, I’m not one of those.
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Well after a year, I was surprised to find that I’ve put my 10 key Siccama down as my favourite flute, and picked up the 6 key open hole flute.
I still get some awful wolf tones in between fingering changes/glides which is down to my limited experience with working the change from a mostly keyed simple system flute, to an open hole Rudall Rose type bore. Didn’t think it would be possible that I could ever cover the right hand third finger hole accurately! If anyone else has a dilemma thinking that open hole 6 key simple system is too challenging, do stick with it. I’m surprised how much I’m enjoying it instead of the fully keyed simple system hybrids 
Main flute now is 6 keyed , with no low c or c#.
The only 8 key flutes I’ve had have been antiques. They have been difficult or impossible to get low c and c#. They have been a bit leaky on these keys or the linkage set up.
Is it common to be able to get these to sound reliably and quickly for fast tunes? I have seen them being played like this but lots of players just turn the foot around and don’t use them.
Me too. The cost of a new 8 key flute is quite something for the extra 2 foot joint keys.
I’ve just (!) managed to get the toneholes sealed for my Thibouville Lamy 8 key flute thanks to the helpful guys on another thread, who suggested I could strip a pad wadding. It seals beautifully and the grasshopper low C and C# honk a loud bellow. It is just as fast as a Boehm footjoint (although the keys need to be de-gunked and lubricated with mechanical rotor key oil or something light to prevent adhesive friction) although my guess is that most of us do not have strong pinky fingers in regular flute practice, so the sprung tension of the key with the little finger prised on the ready, is a new thing for 6 key players. If you practice something like Kohler’s 24 virtuoso studies for the flute, the low C notes are pretty demanding to get in rhythm, probably why the etudes were written, so that the octave leaps help co-ordinate embouchure and fingering simultaneously. It’s nice having 8 keys, although I still prefer 6 keys or my 10 key Siccama which does it all