How do you achieve a "Piper's roll"?

Whistle
1

Panceltic Piper spoke to me the legend of the “Piper’s Roll”, where one would start with a cut and follow it up with two quick strikes. I can’t seem to get up to speed to make it work. Can you do these at most points on a whistle, and (for those who can) how did you get to where you could do them? Did you have to specifically practice them, or did the speed come eventually as your whistling improved?

I can’t use them effectively in my whistling yet, because the speed’s not there. I think I hear them used often as an ending ornament to a phrase. It sounds almost like the whistle is coming to a halting stop.

2

The legend of the piper’s roll?

for fecksake…

[edited to add:]

I suppose I better qualify that. Different people playing different styles may play rolls, cranns etc in different way or use a variety of rolls appropriate to achieve a particular effect desired for a specific situation.

There’s a variety of rolls pipers may or may not choose to use. The Piper’s Roll? It is indeed a bit of a legend.

3

I might have used that term because one hears pipers doing it all the time, but rarely hears whistleplayers or fluteplayers doing it. In fact, I can’t offhand remember hearing a whistleplayer or fluteplayer doing one though I certainly don’t have Total Recall. The term “pipers’ roll” is one of convenience but might not be a term used by pipers (except me). Perhaps “double-pat roll” would be more suitable (we have “double-cut rolls” after all.)

Obviously on the whistle one can do an ordinary roll anytime, two in a row on the same note, with a bit of tonguing separating the two. But when a piper tongues it doesn’t have much effect on what the chanter is doing :slight_smile: so doing a “pipers’ roll” for the second one is a digital solution to the issue:

whistle: G(A)G(F#)G ’ G(A)G(F#)G

pipes: G(A)G(F#)G (A)G(F#)G(F#)G

(the gracenotes are shown as neighbor-tones as a shorthand but in fact might be more distant notes)

But pipers do them all the time, not just in such situations. The famous example is Paddy Keenan’s beginning of the Kesh Jig on the Bothy Band album

(A)G(F#)G(F#)G

They can be, and are, done on any note an ordinary roll is done on

(A)E(D)E(D)E
(A)F#(E)F#(E)

etc.

Here is Paddy Keenan doing them on G and A (not all the time! but most of the time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bbw1nSGtoE

Sometimes pipers extend these with yet another pat, for example starting Kesh Jig

(A)G(F#)G(F#)G (F#)GAB

Is this the only sort of roll pipers use? Of course not! Most of the time they use ordinary rolls, some of the time these “pipers’ rolls”, and quite possibly other sorts of rolls from time to time, depending on the player and the musical situation. Sometimes, on a series of repeated notes, they might continue a sequence of alternating cuts and pats, with the cuts and pats ending up in unusual spots (not where they would be expected in ordinary rolls).

An example could be yet another way to start the Kesh Jig

(A)G(F#)G(A)G (F#)GAB

which is fairly common.

I will add that there was an old Clare fluteplayer here, Ray Tubridy (cousin of Michael), who would do an interesting variation on the note G in many of his tunes: he would park on G for several notes, all these Gs being separated by a series of pats. He didn’t do double-pat rolls as a usual part of his playing.

4

I’d suggest what you are saying applies to pipers following a particular style, not ‘pipers’ in general.

5

While I don’t know of any piper who uses these rolls to the exclusion of normal rolls, I think that pretty much all pipers have them in their “bag of tricks” to get them out of certain situations which would be tongued on the whistle.

As to getting these rolls up to speed, it comes (like everything else) from practice.

Note when Paddy Keenan plays any sort of roll they pop out with great precision. For me this only came through practicing them quite evenly and a bit under full speed until I could do them at full speed while maintaining the rhythmic precision.

6

While I don’t know of any piper who uses these rolls to the exclusion of normal rolls, I think that pretty much all pipers have them in their “bag of tricks” to get them out of certain situations which would be tongued on the whistle.

As most things, it’s a stylistic/aesthetic choice. I’d suggest there are many who would choose to deliberately stay away from the multi tap thing.