Happy Thanksgiving to our northern friends, but down here “south of the border” we’re celebrating the gentleman who stumbled over America whilst searching for a shorter route to India, the better to corner the market on inexpensive wooden whistles and flutes.
BTW, just why do we celebrate someone who was so far off in his reckoning that after bumping into America he still thought he’d indeed reached India?
John
Don’t know. It’ll probably be one of those mysteries…
Whatever good, bad, well-advised, or ill-advised Mr. Columbus did, he deserves a prominent place in historical remembrance because he led the way in opening up world travel, and revolutionizing societies’ interaction one with another.
Technically Columbus Day was the 12th of October, but today is the postal holiday.
And the school holiday, and the bank holiday, and the…
Don’t know what’s become of this country. Now the kids get out for President’s Day, Columbus Day, and even at the end of each grading period so the teachers can do their reports… Oh well.
In Philadelphis there’s a statue of Columbus, as if he ever even came close to where the city is!!! Go figure.
And a very Happy Thanksgiving to all our whistling brethren and sistren ( 
) north of the border!!!
I didn’t get out of classes for columbus day 
On 2002-10-14 10:34, TelegramSam wrote:
I didn’t get out of classes for columbus day >
Nor did I. And I was in school before there was a President’s Day, but we didn’t get out for Washington’s or Lincoln’s birthdays.
Why can’t Johnny read? Because he’s never in school!!! 
~Larry
Too true. Our local public schools have so many off days and half days it’s ridiculous! (when our exchange student was here from Germany, we had to consult the calendar every morning to see if she was supposed to go to school that day, or if she had a “late start” day or an “early dismissal” day).
I’ve never been fond of Columbus Day, but I must say in many ways it strikes me as quintessetially American. Think about it…An Italian Jewish guy sailing for Spain runs into Cuba, calls it India and gets credited with discovering America…how much more “melting pot” can you get in one story? If it weren’t historically verifiable, you’d almost think it was a tall tale 
Redwolf
On 2002-10-14 09:59, Walden wrote:
… and revolutionizing societies’ interaction one with another.
Interesting way of describing it
Teri
Went to a RiverFest in southern Utah over the weekend where a lot of the history of the Colorado River area was discussed (in between great musical acts - my brothers’ bluegrass band being one of them). One of the speakers was a Navajo man who mentioned Columbus Day. He said jokingly, “Actually, we celebrate the day BEFORE as Pre-Columbus Day.” Then he said, “Interesting, isn’t it, that a guy who doesn’t know where he’s going, doesn’t know where he is when he gets there, and when he gets back doesn’t know where he’s been, is credited with discovering America.” He also said that it is sneered at, at least by the Navajos - and I would imagine by most other Native Americans, that Europeans or whites are credited with “discovering” so many places (such as the Grand Canyon) that the Native Americans knew were there for centuries.
Anyway, it was interesting to me.
(No day off for me today…)
Susan
Personally, I’ve always thought that, if Columbus gets credited with anything, it should be with revolutionizing the cuisine of his native land. Can you imagine Italian cooking without such things as gnocci, polenta, marinara and peperonata? (all made with New World foods that Columbus brought back with him…respectively, potatoes, corn (maize) meal, tomatoes and sweet bell peppers).
As far as “Discovering America” goes, I have to agree with the Native Americans there. Even if we want to give credit to the first European to “discover” the existence of the American continents, the Vikings and (by many accounts) the Irish got here long before Columbus.
Redwolf
P.S. As a friend of mine on another board says, “Food is always on topic!”
A new opportunity…
Every year round this time I hear disparaging things about Columbus, about how stupid he was etc.etc.
He was not stupid. For his times, he was quite brave and a gambler, really, similar to our big self-made business success stories.
He did not think this was the Asian landmass, contrary to popular belief, but he had to relate what he had discovered to the thinking of the times. If you ever get a chance to read, “Columbus Was Last” you will see that stories about the New World had been circulating around Europe since Roman times and more than a few cultures probably visited both North and South America, including the Welsh, in the 12th century, according to their traditions. I read another book that was devoted to all the supposed islands that existed west of Europe and many maritime interests were devoted to their exploration.
Also, his calculations were as good as the science that supported them at the time.
Navigation and other maritime information was always shrouded in secrecy because of colonial desires and military strategy, so the mists of confusion surrounding various expeditions were purposefully created.
He had his personal faults, and the faults we ascribe to that past culture when we overlay our modern values on them, but he wasn’t stupid. You could call him arrogant, nutty ( he unraveled pretty good by the end of his life) and selfish, but not stupid.
Just too easy to cast stones despite Jesus’ and other thoughtful peoples admonitions. People weren’t that different than we are today and I wouldn’t want to be reduced to such 2-dimensional caricatures, but it serves demagogic culture-bashing agendas to do so.
I respect Columbus for what he did accomplish.
This land mass would be discovered by someone eventually, the hunter-gatherer American native cultures would be vanquished and natural resources would be used (exploited, plundered, whatever) by an increasingly science-based system of things. He gets the honor and the raspberrys for his voyage and its consequences.
The musing Weekender
Better Columbus than 900 Spaniards with swords. “Dude, you want us to BURN the ships??!!”
On 2002-10-14 13:24, The Weekenders wrote:
…
He was not stupid…
The musing Weekender
Hmmm, not sure what brought that on. I don’t think anybody here said he was stupid, just mistaken. In my flippant (and meant to be humorous) remark that started this I said that he was far off in his reckoning, and that is quite true any way you look at it.
If he hadn’t tripped over the Americas it’s likely he would’ve gotten his entire expedition very dead as they had not laid on enough supplies to make the trip all the way to India without landfall as was his original intent.
Nor was he the first to realize that earth is not flat (as is so often mis-taught in public schools). The ancient Hebrews knew it before the time of Christ. There is some evidence it was known by the Phoenicians (sp?) and some asians as well, centuries before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
John
I understand in New York you can’t play a soprano whistle in the Columbus Day Parade???
Looking forward to hearing “Uncle Junior’s Jig”
Timmy
On 2002-10-14 14:11, TnWhistler wrote:
I understand in New York you can’t play a soprano whistle in the Columbus Day Parade???
Timmy
ROFL! That one’s going to go over quite a few heads, though…
John
BTW, just why do we celebrate someone who was so far off in his reckoning that after bumping into America he still thought he’d indeed reached India?
John
Haven’t you seen The Sopranos? If we didn’t celebrate it, we’d have our knees broken by obese men with badly fitting clothes and Southern European names.
(/quote)
Nor did I. And I was in school before there was a President’s Day, but we didn’t get out for Washington’s or Lincoln’s birthdays.
(/quote)
I went to school in Illinois. They’d have given up the Fourth of July before they gave up the Lincoln’s Birthday holiday. Now I believe the kids get BOTH Presidents’ Day and Lincoln’s Birthday.
When I was going to school in Oklahoma, they had to factor in so many snow days that there was no time for all those days off. We went to school on Lincoln’s Birthday, Washington’s Birthday, Columbus Day, All Saints Day, All Souls Day, Arbor Day, St. Valentine’s Day, St. Patrick’s Day, Groundhog Day, Armistice Day, and Canadian Thanksgiving.
On 2002-10-14 14:11, TnWhistler wrote:
I understand in New York you can’t play a soprano whistle in the Columbus Day Parade???Looking forward to hearing “Uncle Junior’s Jig”
Timmy
Badda Bing!