Has anybody here ever played a conical Boehm?
I’m more and more curious about them. You know, the sound we love combined with easy of fingering, and not completely covered holes.
Of course I can try to imagine their sound (perhaps not too far away from their simple system friends) but I’d like a more direct experience.
Thanks
There are two on eBay just now.
I know… I probably don’t have the money anyway.
I own one and have played a few notes on it but it’s not in a state where it’s able to be played properly… A future project is to get it going.
Cheers
Graeme
Update us when you do 
I have one, Lorenzo, a French-made instrument from around the end of the 19th century.
I wouldn’t get too excited about it, at least for ITM purposes. The bore and holes are small, so the performance is not big. I just compared it to my usual playing instrument, my Rudall 5088 model, and the tone is definitely quieter and less edgy. It might respond to some supercharging, with a new head and a more responsive embouchure.
Tuning is pretty good (as you’d hope) although it seems better to me at 430 than 435 or 440. Might be a getting-used-to thing.
Terry
Thanks Terry!
So you think that most of this flutes will be similar in volume to the one you have? Why don’t you try it with a new headjoint (I’m sure you have plenty around!)?
For comparison, how big are the holes and the bore?
A friend bought one and she’s happy with it (it looks just like the one in Terry’s collection – a Thibouville, maybe?), but I agree with Terry that it’s not exactly a master-blaster. Its sound carries across a circle of musicians just fine (better than you’d expect), but you can’t push it around like you can the bigger-bored flutes. Of course, it’s French and of that period of refinement, so there you go. But the Boehm setup suits her down to the ground, and it’s got about the sweetest tone I’ve heard, esp. in the upper register. We’d been looking for more of a Rudall-made Boehm in the hopes it’d be a little more “best of both worlds,” but this one’s fine for her purposes.
Has anyone tried the Garry Somers’ cylindrical aluminum keyless 'Boehm"?
K.
I will, but it’s not a simple matter of a swap with an existing head. The head section is unusually short compared to most flutes, and so the instrument would be so flat that the test would be meaningless. Also, my usual heads have a bigger bore. I’ll have to make a head specifically for it.
Head bore on the Laube is 18.3mm. Body tapers from 18.1 to 11.75mm. End of foot bore is 11.1mm. Hard to get at most of the holes because of the keywork, but the 5 ring-key holes vary from 7.3mm to nearly 8mm. The key covered holes are no larger, sometimes smaller. So, smooth, well-tuned but not loud. You can see why it didn’t catch on with the English, who were used to the big-bodied sound from post-Nicholson flutes.
It needed Boehm’s 19mm cylindrical bore to overcome the weakness due to the narrow bore. And even then, it waited until Clinton introduced large graduated holes in 1862 to catch up to the big bore, big hole Siccamas and Prattens and give us the basis for the modern Boehm flute.
I’m constantly reminded that the three flute makers (Boehm, Siccama and Clinton) that Rockstro puts the boot into were actually the three greatest minds of the era. But we only have to watch or read the Murdock press today to be reminded of the destructive power of well-presented lies.
Terry
Thanks again Terry, let us know when you try that new head on it.
I wonder how the flute history would be different if Boehm made a bigger bore from the beginning, and maybe a square embouchure hole (you kind of need smaller holes if you want to use rings, don’t you?).
Boehm did in fact make and prefer the rectangular embouchure hole, but neither the English or French liked it. I think it wasn’t until mid 20th century that all the modern flute makers switched to it. I think it would help to supercharge the Laube.
On hole sizes, yes, you are limited with ring keys to what the finger can cover. As we know on post-Nicholson flutes, this can get up as far as 10.5 to 11mm on one hole (hole 5) but a flute with multiple holes this size would be harder to control. I think 10mm would be a reasonable limit, so the Laube is pretty safe at less than 8mm. French simple system flutes of the time rarely got over 7mm, so you can see where he was coming from.
Terry
I shouldn’t leave the topic without observing that a Boehm system conical flute doesn’t have to be quiet, it’s just that at the time and place they were designed, emphasis was on improving uniformity and tuning, not power. Even when Boehm turned his mind to the cylindrical flute, he was still looking for better tuning, not power. Even so his new cylindrical flute proved too big for the Germans and the French, and they both set to to improve the conical some more, with extra keys to patch over the problems.
There’s no reason why an adventurous modern maker couldn’t apply Boehm’s keywork to say a Pratten’s bore (it would need some tweaks to take into account the semitone venting steps, rather than the mostly tone venting steps on an 8-key). With the big bore and fully vented design, it should be pretty full-throated.
Terry (feeling uncharacteristically unadventurous…)
Here’s an affordable one newly on eBay from a reputable source, playable at 440 and in fully fettled playing condition, at a very reasonable Buy It Now price. I’d be tempted if I was in a position to be so (and didn’t need to save up about that much to pay for the restoration of the RC&Co Radcliff I acquired recently…).
And here’s another - needing restoration and not as attractive proposition, though maybe a more valuable instrument once fixed and properly identified - more likely to be diapason normal (LP), too.
Interesting conversation - do they finger just like Rudall’s?
My new dirty secret, after the long discussion about playing Holst in Dflat on the wooden flute , is that I’ve gone a different route - and bought myself a silver concert flute. I’m really enjoying playing it, although switching now between the wooden flutes and the silver flute for my course feels a little bit like shooting myself in the foot. But hopefully that’s just a muscular memory thing and it will just get better. I’m fine if I move from wooden flute to silver flute - not so fine always moving back as my thumb just wants to put the B key on.
But it is a different perspective - they’re all flutes, just some are better for sharp keys and some are better for flat keys… and the thing that surprises me, is apart from some difference in timbre, I just sound like myself on all of them.
Cheers,
Pamela
What Rudalls, Pamela? R&Rs early conoid-bored Bohm flutes? RRC/RC&Co’s later wooden Bohm flutes? 8-key simple system R&Rs?
These French conoid Bohms are mostly the full 1847 system with Briccialdi thumb keys and modern style closed G# but on a conoid wooden body - so they will finger just like a modern Bohm flute. Some are the original Bohm 1832 conoid design, but probably with Dorus’ closed G#. The latter will finger a little bit differently to modern Bohm systems. None of them will finger like an 8-key simple system
Sell out!!! 
No, seriously, if you’re learning and adapting and enjoying, it’s all good - the only harm it can do is to your efforts to widen the range of what you can achieve on the 8-key.
These links may be of interest: Boehm flutes
THE RUDALL CARTE FLAUTISTS
Lorenzo,
I have a flute made by AG Badger. It has a conical bore and Boehm fingering. However, it has ring keys, one of them a split ring, and the fingering is a pain. Also, the bore is such with the cork placement that the harmonics are not in tune and therefore part of the scale is quite unstable (in terms of pitch vs. pressure). It has an oval blowhole and undercut toneholes in a thick wall: my experience has shown me that these make a big difference. I’m adept with Boehm fingering; earlier this year I was working with tapered bores and Boehm fingering. Part of that means “full semitone venting,” and I think I’ve proved to myself that this is a losing combination.
Walt
Thanks Walt. What do you mean with “the fingering is a pain”? It shouldn’t be too different in feel from a clarinet’s ring keys…
Perhaps with another maker the pitch/pressure stability would be better?
I don’t know, it feels to me like the flute world has lost the opportunity to get the best of the two systems, fingering and tone.
Lorenzo,
Amen, that too much of the tone has been lost on the Boehmflute (but that’s been said from the early days). I did a little experiment here where I took a metal flute head and made a cylindrical body for it (in Permali). The wall thickness was proportionate to an Irish flute. I made some toneholes and found the tone to be improved. Then I made an oval blowhole (Irish style). More improvement. I’m still working on it.
On the Badger, the open part of the hole was quite large (10mm), certainly larger than the hole you’d find in a modern metal flute with “open holes”. Badger’s holes are much larger than found on a typical clarinet. Because of my grip, my left-hand fingers come down sharply to the flute, and this angle doesn’t work so well with the ring keys (which are large to begin with). Then there’s the G-hole (above the right index) as a split ring.
I haven’t played anyone else’s conical Boehm. There’s always Claire Soubeyran:
http://www.soubeyranflutes.com/en
If you try others, by all means do let me know about the stability. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m thinking this stability issue is part of the overall design problem. I’ve seen it turn up in other designs I’ve worked on. Last year, I heard a professional flute demo, comparing these two types of flutes. On the Boehm bore, he used tremelo (varying the intensity). When he switched to the Badger, the effect changed to vibrato (changing the pitch), and I don’t think that was his intent. I’ve never felt “in-tune” when playing on such an instrument.
Walt
Thread Revival Warning!
I’ve now acquired a French conoid wooden ring-key Bohm system flute, so I can answer the OP/thread title!
Sorry for the duff playing (explained in the video blurb) - I hope the flute itself will be of interest.
When are you going to visit, Lorenzo?