Laura I will have to try that, being in potato country as I am 
Ben where did you order from? Hope you used http://www.bestbookbuys.com ! Or failing that, http://www.thewhistleshop.com !
Ah, yes. I’d love to have a 12 string. I need to do something about my dying 6 string first, though. The bridge is rather badly cracked. Still playable, but I’m not sure for how much longer. And I don’t think my electric guitar and amp would make for good accompaniment for this type of music.
- B
I used amazon. Mostly because they never give me a hassle about shipping to places all over the country while my credit card only lists PA.
- B
Well then, I hope you checked edealfinder.com for valid Amazon coupons.
And you are correct…electrics and amps will get harrassment, even from pipers and bodhran players!
(I’ve already had to dissuade one local guitarist from bringing his amp to the Boise session…)
A couple books that may be relevant:
Celtic Back-Up by Chris Smith (mel bay)
Traditional Irish Guitar by Paul de Grae (ossian)
Hey is that the Chris Smith that wrote the lengthy explanation of exactly how one must play at sessions that celtophobe referred to???
Id go with de Grae. He makes nices posts on IRTRAD
You can better defend yourself in a brawl with a guitar, too.
Heh, I guarantee that anyone who gets a smack on the melon with my low-D Gold Chieftain isn’t going to be getting up anytime soon. It would be like getting hit with a lead pipe. In fact, it easily outweighs the telescoping metal baton I carried as a police officer.
On 2002-08-21 23:08, The Weekenders wrote:
Hey is that the Chris Smith that wrote the lengthy explanation of exactly how one must play at sessions that celtophobe referred to???
Id go with de Grae. He makes nices posts on IRTRAD
I’d hardly call Chris a celtophobe. He plays tenor banjo, guitar, bouzouki and something else like accordion. He has lots of writings on learning Irish music. I would say that he has a lot of strongly held opinions which he doesn’t hesitate to express in a pretty forthright manner. However, what I like about his stuff is that he offers general ideas and leaves it up to students to develop them on their own. I guess this isn’t really a very popular approach. Most books say do this, put your finger here, play these notes, etc. Chris doesn’t do this, at least not when he is discussing backup techniques. He suggests instead building chord shapes for yourself, finding chord changes for yourself, etc. I have nothing against De Grae’s book but he advocates a tuning that hardly anyone but himself uses and, like other books, it’s based on the “here are the changes” approach for the most part. He does discuss alternate chords to some extent. I think the person who works through Chris’s material will be more rewarded in the long run.
Steve
I mentioned in one of my earlier threads several months back my fear of waiting in dark parking lots.
My son works at a Meijers store second shift. I had to pick him up at 11:00pm. I know that there are security cameras all around. But I felt more secure toting my low G whistle with me.
Thanks for the reviews Steve. I’m not a guitar player, just knew there were a couple possibly relevant titles in the home collection. Your reviews helped others get a glimpse into what each book has to offer. I bet I’m not the only one who appreciates it.
Nancy
However, what I like about his stuff is that he offers general ideas and leaves it up to students to develop them on their own. … He suggests instead building chord shapes for yourself, finding chord changes for yourself, etc.
Thats sounds good for people who are already playing and I am doing that very thing. Im not so sure for stark beginners tho who have no basic set of chord forms.
As I mentioned earlier (maybe on Trad??)
I have been redoing the chords for session tunes with some more wistful chords, like Asus7 instead of straight A in D Maj. tunes for example… But I have been playing guitar for 34 years, so it comes easier…
I have found that DADGAD lends itself better to this approach because with all the drone action, most anything sounds pretty good, while on standard tuning, its less friendly. i wasnt sure whether the Smith approach uses which tuning…
Thanks for getting tech as I had never really seen deGrae’s. I was put off by that website of Smith though. Just too precise and uptight but no good to throw out baby with the bathwater…
I’ve reccommended Chris’ book for a while now. It comes with a cd and talks about how to fit in. How to let the melody players do their thing and enhance it, not detract. He offers a bunch of different ways to do that and suggests that you learn them as tools that you can fit to the situation as the music requires. He also has a 99 track CD. Where he tries to illustrate what to listen for in IRTrad. It includes demonstrations of just the rythym of the various tune forms, jigs, reals, hornpipes, mazerkas, etc. It’s what backing up Irish tunes is most about, supporting the beat and not taking away from the melody.
I also agree with the above review that he does leave it up to student to workout what’s appropriate, considering most of the American venues, that’s wise advice. I found sessions running from bluegrass-Irish, contra dance Irish, new age folk - Irish, to what some call pure-drop traditional Irish. Judging from some of the other things I’ve read, his focus is on participating in the music and fitting in. The book seeks to give the back-up instrumentalist more tools to do that and defines them in relation to Irish and related music.
It does get technical in places, but for me its a book I can still go back to from time to time to find another way to play better. So if I play backup to your whistle, you’ll be able to better …
Enjoy Your Music,
Lee Marsh
[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-08-22 16:41 ]
On 2002-08-22 16:21, The Weekenders wrote:
Thats sounds good for people who are already playing and I am doing that very thing. Im not so sure for stark beginners tho who have no basic set of chord forms.
i wasnt sure whether the Smith approach uses which tuning…
Thanks for getting tech as I had never really seen deGrae’s. I was put off by that website of Smith though. Just too precise and uptight but no good to throw out baby with the bathwater…
Well, people who have no basic chords are not going to get very far with books or web sites which give tunes with accompanying chords either. What will someone do with all those sus chords in 121 Session Tunes if they don’t have the chords? Gavin Ralston’s book gives chord charts but it’s certainly not for the beginner.
On the CD for Celtic backup Chris uses different tunings. Sometimes DADGAD.
I can relate to your last point. Chris sometimes comes off as really dogmatic. As I said he has strong opinions. I met him at Zoukfest several years ago and I’m impressed with him as a teacher, though. He has a nice segment on a videotape put out by Zoukfest on improvising countermelodies as a form of backup. I think it’s that kind of stuff where his ideas are really good.
Steve
El McMeen does some cool guitar stuff. His version of Blarney Pilgrim is cool, although I wouldn’t have done the alternating bass thing myself…I would’ve stuck with just the a “drone” (with guitar, it technically isn’t a drone; it’s really just pedal point unless you keep the note sustained…)
http://www.elmcmeen.com/
As far as defending yourself in a pub brawl…I’m a not-so-lowly guitarist (you play for eight or more years and then see how lowly you are), and I side with guitar…especially lighter ones. Hey, it worked for El Kabong.
(Although he must have ruined, like, at least six guitars an episode)
. What will someone do with all those sus chords in 121 Session Tunes if they don’t have the chords?
I dont wish to start a war but I dont think so much of those chords, especially since some of them are not even what is on the cd. I can’t figure out why he used those and his suspended ones, to me, are just code for a DADGAD chord that might be too hard to define by conventional chord lingo. That is one of my biggest problems with the book, the harmonizations, though I quickly try to defer to LEs accomplishments over the years (covered in thread about 17 pages ago at least)..
And I dont know about you guys, but I find that the subdominant in D (G) is very weakened by DADGAD tuning because of awkward fingering…You tend to want to play the first inversion unless yer barrin… I am still developing my ideas, but dropped D standard sometimes seems a little better tho DADGAD has an endorsed sound…G is still awkward tho up at fifth fret. but you just finger 6 and 5 and avoid 1. A faster passing…
Don’t know if its right to take thread this way, but what do you “lowly” guitar guys do for a g chord anyhoo in DADGAD? Or do you go along with first inversion? or lotsa barrin and/or Vth position???
Just musings…
On 2002-08-23 02:50, The Weekenders wrote:
. What will someone do with all those sus chords in 121 Session Tunes if they don’t have the chords?
I dont wish to start a war but I dont think so much of those chords, especially since some of them are not even what is on the cd.
You won’t start a war with me about that! But some people regularly drop in the suggestion the the 121 ST book is the cure all. Use those chords! Learn those tunes! You’ll be a whiz! People will welcome you with open arms at any session! I think all the instructional stuff that is available now is a mixed blessing and sometimes an unmixed disaster anyway.
I don’t use DADGAD but I agree about the G chord in dropped D. I’m not sure that all this guitar talk is appropriate here on a whistle board and have sometimes wondered if a list or board devoted to accompaniment of traditional music would be good. Try and get up a discussion about substantive stuff on the cittern list and the thread will quickly degenerate into a discussion about the merits of various kinds of beer or, at best, ampflication systems.
Steve
That was funny, Steve! Beer??? Well, I guess you can slosh stuff around in yer mouth more with a string instrument in yer hands and the rest just follows!! Ha!
That was my bad on my part about the chord forms etc. Its just sticks out a little and I have been scratchin my head about it. I haven’t checked out guitar forums because, after playing classical guitar for 34 years, I just don’t have the passion to find a guitar forum!!! When I consider what goes on here about the whistle, I can just imagine what a guitar forum might be like. Because its Always about Me, its personally easier to hear people ask about beginner whistles than Takamines and Yamahas…Oh well. ..
Best wishes from the insignificant, unintelligent but reasonable Weekender.
On 2002-08-21 14:37, steve wrote:
And as a side note to Avanutria, it is not called Guitar Obsessive Acquisition, it is called Guitar Acquisition Syndrome or GAS.
And between the GAS and the WhOD, we could all be whistling “Dixie” out our behinds and telegraphing our presence into the future. The Crystal People made me do it!