guitar B (2nd) string harmonic?

Trad Strings
1

I recently noticed a wierd high pitched clanging sort of sound on a guitar my husband bought for me a few weeks ago.

I called the store and they said to bring it in, (which I intend to do tomorrow) but I was wondering how common this is and what might be causing it.

Its like a high pitched clang when I play the second (b) string, (a harmonic?).
It doesn’t happen all the time and I need to use a pick to make it happen.

I can’t dulpicate the sound on any of the other strings when I play the same note.

Nothing seems loose or rattles when I shake it.

I asked my husband to try playing the guitar and when it happened for him I could hear the clang ringing from the other end of the house.

When I phoned the store we bought it at they mentioned humidity as a possible factor but I’ve got the house humidity cranked up for my fiddle’s comfort.
Besides, its a “Little Martin”. There’s not much real wood on the thing to be affected.

Does anybody have an idea what might be going on?

2

Frank Ford has a couple of pages on buzz diagnosis: this one and this one.

3

Hyldemoer,
Without examining the guitar it is hard to tell what the problem is. One thing that comes to mind first is that the string is dead. A string is dead when it sounds dull or starts buzzing, rattling or “clanging” or fails to stay in tune for very long, etc. I’ve put new strings on my guitar only to find that one (or more) was dead out of the package. (It pays to buy better strings but its no guarantee.) The first thing to do is to change your strings. If the problem still persists, you can start looking for the high pitched clang in the usual places…nut, saddle, loose screws on the machines, loose frets, etc.
Ro3b is right on with Frank Ford’s website - good advice for free. Hope this is helpful. kbr

4

First of all I want to thank eveyone who made suggestions of what might possibly be going on with my guitar. I know nothing about guitars and it was comforting to have a clue what language the store’s guitar techs were speaking.

We took the Little Martin back to the store last night and yeah, a dead string was the first thing two guitar techs suggested.

They changed the string, but I could still hear the clang.
Then I tried all the Little Martins they had in the store (on the suggestion that I could exchange the guitar).

All the Little Matrins in the store had the same clang.

Either all the Little Martins were loaded with bad B strings (it can happen)
or (what my most immediate logic at the time was) the clang (we’d all agreed that it was an “harmonic” sort of thing when I could reproduce it) was what one gets on a $300. guitar, even if the guitar is made by Martin not out ruling the chance that one can luck out and find one without a weird feature like this).

Down the road, I’ll do what you suggested KBR, upgrade the strings to see if that helps.

If I had to do it over again I might have looked more seriously at a Baby Taylor, but I’m not sure.
Call me crude, but I like the practicality of a beginning guitar (my main instrument is fiddle. I’m learning guitar to get some sort of idea what a guitarist accompanying my fiddle playing is trying to accomplish.) that’s as indistructable as possible. The Little Martin is that, plus it fits my small stature.

I should add here that both guitar techs could play the guitar without producing the clang
and many of the times I produced the clange for them, they weren’t sure they could hear it, nor could my husband as he stood next to me.

None of them doubted however, that I could hear it. That’s why they offered me an exchange of guitars, that I declined.

But once again, thanks guys.

5

hyldemoer,
What you have to say is very interesting…
I make guitars and have ALWAYS found the B string to be very tempermental for a number of reasons. I believe it has to do with the thinkness of the unwound string. The fact that this is on a short scale guitar will exacerbate any problem that might be inherent in the string. Since all of the little martins seem to have this same problem, its probably due more to the scale length and string gauge.
Since the guitar techs were able to play without the sound, a few things come to mind…first, guitars sound different to player and listener. A few guitar makers are making “ported” guitars with soundholes in the bass side at the upper bout so that the player can hear the guitar better. When you play, you hear it but the techs listen, they don’t hear it (the noise). Secondly, since you are new to the instrument and the techs are not, you may be introducing this sound to the instrument by your technique which is probably not as good as the techs…I assume you are using a plectrum…are your picking strokes at a 90 degree angle to the string or are you playing more from the side. Some folks do that and it can cause noise. Probably the thing to do is to sit down with a teacher and discuss how your technique might be changed to avoid causing this problem. kbr

6

KBR,
Thank you for the feed back on this. As I mentioned, I see myself primarily as a fiddle player and my recent adventure into the world of guitar is to help me understand what any guitarist playing with me is trying to do.

B strings on a guitar being tempermental? Ahhh, violinists always seem to be searching for the ultimate E (1st) string.

The points you brought up about string length, I’ve been finding it so much easier for me to play a smaller guitar that I’ve been more seriously considering getting a smaller scale violin.
Since the size I’d be thinking of getting would be the relatively rare 7/8 size I’m wondering how much of what you said I can extrapolate to a string length influenced adventure I’d find on that size violin.

My husband also brought up the idea of the placement of the sound hole idea, but I could hear the clang if it happened with me playing or the techs.
They were more consistent in not making it clang even though they often couldn’t hear it when they did it.

Perhaps its worth mentioning that, though I’ve lost some ability to hear consonants (Bs and Ps sound the same to me et cetera), the tinny buzz of electrical transformers that no one else seems to hear drives me crazier than my normal state of crazy sometimes.
This might all be a quality of my own hearing sort of thing.

But back to your final suggestion. In any case, yeah, I’m certainly not going to marginalize the value of acquiring more skill on the instrument.

Thank you again.

7

hydlemoer - different instrument, same problem…

We have a mountain dulcimer that when Tom plays it, he hears a “ping”, and I never hear it when he’s playing it. We’ve tried all kinds of things to get rid of the “ping” - changing string sizes, changing how the strings break over the bridge, adding a piece of suede under the strings at the tail block, you name it. Tom doesn’t believe me that I can’t hear the “ping” and therefore anyone listening won’t hear it - HE hears it and it drives him crazy.
Different dulcimer when Tom was playing and fretting a certain note on the middle string, I could hear a “buzz”, but he couldn’t.

What I guess I’m saying is I understand - but as long as you can live with the extra noise, don’t worry about it too much. If it does drive you crazy, then I don’t know what to suggest… therapy??.. just kidding.

8

The Baby Martin isn’t a bad choice for a first or travel guitar. I took mine along to Ireland on my last trip and worked very well in sessions–even did a bit of recording on it while over there.

A couple questions regarding the buzz that you’re hearing. What gauge strings are you using, and what tuning do you have the guitar in?

I got my Baby Martin used, and when I got it, I think the original owner had lights or extra lights on the guitar. The strings fretted out like crazy when tuned to DADGAD and things weren’t much better tuned up to standard. I think Martin suggests using mediums, and it makes sense–the scale length is so short, you need higher tension strings than normal. Mediums on my Baby Martin feel like lights on my standard guitars.

In DADGAD, it works better for me to up the B (high A) and E (high D) strings up to an 18 and 15. I tried a 59 on the low string, but I think I’d have to get the nut set up differently to make it work.

Another factor: humidity. Even though you may have the composite material for the top, humidity still affects the guitar. When I took it out with me to Utah last year, the action dropped quite a bit until I started using my Damp-It.

–Jeff