giving lessons to little children

Whistle
1

I wanted to post this as mostly a guitar topic.

However, any advice from others will help me out considerably.

So far I have taught 3 students guitar lessons.

An 18 year old who is now playing publicly.

A 12 year old who quit, basically all of her activities for boys. ARG! Such potential.
I did that too, what a waist of time. If only children could remain focused on their gifts.. (oh, thats another topic back on topic)

And now my third challenge, an eight year old. She has a short attention span. She is not practicing the chords I have been teaching her.

I was wondering how I could make this experience more fun for her. She still is dealing with the sore finger tips.

Being so close to Christmas, I pulled out Jingle Bells for her and O Christmas Tree. She loves to sing.

This will be my third lesson. I am a very patient person, but, I feel like I need to become a little more firm, for at least her parents sake. Yet, I do not wish this to discourage her. I told in the beginning, it was going to be hard work. And also will be at times a bit boring… but, to keep at it, the work will be worth it in the long run.

Laura

2

On 2002-11-14 09:27, hillfolk22 wrote:
A 12 year old who quit, basically all of her activities for boys. ARG! Such potential.
I did that too, what a waist of time.

a waist of time? this seems wrong on so many levels. :wink:

But, back to your serious question: I don’t have much experience teaching kids the tinwhistle (other than an impromptu half-hour lesson when some niece or other wanted to play with my whistles), but I have a lot of experience teaching kids kung fu.

I imagine there are a few parallels. There will be times when stuff is boring, times when your body is sore, and times when you just are tired of doing the same ol’ thing over and over.

Part of what we’d do is explain that we know what the kid’s going through. (“I know your legs are sore. But eventually, they won’t be, and this exercize will make them strong. Try to give your best effort”).

Part of what we’d do would be to hold demonstrations of the kind of stuff they’d eventually be able to do, to remind them of why they were taking martial arts in the first place.

Part of what we’d do is vary the routine, and keep things interesting (nobody wants to practice the same punch over and over again for weeks, even if it’s what they really need). Your idea of adding ‘fun’ tunes sounds good to me…you could maybe also add scout tunes or any other simple pieces that the student might find fun.

I understand your concern about being stern. We’d sometimes have kids that were lazy, distracted, or otherwise not doing the practice. If they’re going to learn, you have to be a little stern sometimes. Sometimes this loses you students..sometimes, it shapes them up. It’s a gamble that depends on the individual situation.

And then there’s the sad fact that the kid may never take to the music with the same passion you have, for one reason or another. There’s a reason why so many kids take music lessons or martial arts, but so few of them become professional musicians or black belts.

Greg

3

On 2002-11-14 11:50, Wandering_Whistler wrote:

a waist of time? this seems wrong on so many levels. > :wink:

Greg

Yes, you are right about the sad fact that some will never pursue the music, or sport, or art, with the same enthusiasm in later years.

One can only hope that seeds are planted.
That they will come back to it. Like I did.
I hated all those hours of organ lessons. Now I appreciate every minute, I learned.

Oh, and about it being a waist of time.
I guess that was a little bit of a harsh gesture on my part.

Life lessons are never a waist of time.
What I may deem as a waist of time in my youth, I can now encourge others to think and do things a bit differently. And I should never judge the decisions of youth, for with bad decisions comes growth.

Thanks for your imput Greg, it really does help.

Laura

4

I can tell you what my daughter’s piano teacher does (my daughter is nine, and can be very hard to motivate to practice). She puts the onus on her. She never berates her for not practicing…she only comments that she will not improve and will have to continue doing the “boring” stuff if she doesn’t. She will also occasionally play something really fun and complicated and then say “that’s the kind of thing you can hope to do someday, if you practice regularly.” Beyond that, it’s up to the child (and the parents, which I will get to in a bit).

She’s very low-key and matter-of-fact about it, and I think with a younger child (especially if the child has actual neurological attention deficit, rather than simply the ordinary third-grader short attention span), this works best. The attitude she sends is “if you want to learn a musical instrument, practice is part of it. If all you want to do is come here each week and play the same old songs, well, that’s up to you.” She doesn’t offer rewards for practicing, other than a verbal “Well done! I can see you’ve been practicing!” when progress is made (rewards in and of themselves can create stress, and children with attention issues are also very prone to anxiety issues).

That’s how she deals with the child. Any pressure regarding practice (and that is fairly low key too) is directed toward the parent. She has her students bring a notebook to lessons each week, in which they write, under her direction, what they are to focus on for practice that week. She will then take ME aside and remind me to check my daughter’s practice notebook so I know WHAT she should be focusing on. Because we also know each other through choir, and she knows I’m also a musician, she doesn’t go into a lot of detail with me about HOW to practice effectively, but she does with other parents. She makes the point that setting aside a particular time each day for practice (and sticking to it) is important. She reminds them that frequent short practice sessions are more effective than one or two marathon sessions. She reminds them to check the notebook and keep tabs on what their child SHOULD be practicing. But again, beyond that she doesn’t go. She’ll tell you up front that she is willing to continue to teach your child as long as you’re willing to continue bringing her, but that responsibility for progress rests on the parent and the child, and their willingness to work together on a practice schedule.

What I would advise, then, is that you have a talk with this little one’s parent or parents. Have the child start keeping a practice notebook, and draw the parents’ attention to it after each class. Suggest they set aside a regular time for practice, and a reasonable time limit (as little as 10-15 minutes a day can be productive, and, with guitar, will gradually build up the calluses without causing too much discomfort on a day-to-day basis) and that they supervise their child’s practice time to make sure she’s working on what she needs to focus on. Beyond that, it’s up to them. If they discover that their child really isn’t ready for even this much focus, perhaps they will decide to drop lessons for a year or so (I wouldn’t suggest this, but if they have a hard time getting her to practice, they might). Or if they’re not willing or able to provide the structure and impetus for daily practice, well…it’s their money.

With the child, I’d keep it low-key. If she complains about sore fingers, you might note casually that the fingers will get less sore if she practices every day. If she complains about being bored, you might comment casually that you can’t really move ahead until she’s mastered what she’s learning now…and that takes regular practice. If the parents communicate that she’s gotten better about practicing, find something in her playing to compliment, and say “I can tell you’ve been practicing!” Periodically take a minute out from the lesson and play something really cool for her, and tell her “you can do this too someday, if you only practice a little every day!!” Beyond that, leave it up to her.

Redwolf

5

Laura,
Some suggestions.
First, waste of time is doing something with less meaning. Waist of time is the bulge around my middle that grows with age.

Now for the better suggestions especially for the 8 year old…

She loves to sing, sing a simple song together at the beginning and end of each session. You play simple arpeggio chords to accompany your singing together. Later, when she’s ready, let her play the beginning song from one she’s learned and practiced and loves.

Keep it fun and do lots of little short things that build skills. Make up games, play a chord, ask her what chord it is. Then using a different chord, without playing it, have her identify the chord from where she sees your fingers. Next without her seeing your fingers, play a chord and ask her which chord she hears. This way you teach her a little theory, a little play by ear and make a game of it. Notice she’s learning guitar but not over taxing her fingers in this game.

Find a few short fun songs to sing with simple chords. For example there is a Peter, Paul, and Mary album called “Peter, Paul, and Mommy”. On it, there is a song called the “Boa Constrictor” it’s fun, it’s new, it’s simple (2 chords D&G), and it’s short. Start this with simple strums, maybe one per measure. Later, maybe have her try a single base note, chord, bass, chord pattern. You can work on theory and tranposition by by taking each verse up the scale DG, EA, GC, AD, CF, and back to DG.

If she’s learning on steel strings, consider switching to nylon for the beginning. They are much easier on young hands and finger tips. (Also softer on parent’s ears).

Most of all have fun teaching any of your students, passion is contagious, let them see how you …

Enjoy Your Music,

Lee Marsh

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-11-14 14:38 ]

6

I felt I should add a bit to my previous post, but I wanted to add a bit more than is reasonable for an “edit,” so here goes:

Young children are often very keen on the idea of playing a musical instrument (or participating in dance, or a sport, or what have you), but they tend to approach it with the idea that all they have to do is pick up the instrument and get a few basic instructions to play like pros. This is true even with very, very bright children, and even if they’ve been told otherwise. From the standpoint of their limited experience, it makes sense…after all, most of the people they’ve heard play play very well indeed…they don’t SEE the hours of practice that went into being able to play that well! When they start taking lessons, and realize that they CAN’T just pick up the instrument and make gorgeous music right off, they either lose interest or get discouraged. You can tell them until you’re blue in the face that EVERY musician started out just like they are, and that it’s practice that’s allowed them to reach the level they have, but they don’t really internalize it.

That’s why the parents are so important. It’s really up to the parents to decide a: if their child is ready to be pushed to practice, even if interest seems to be waning, and b: that they, as parents, are willing to put the effort into making sure this happens. No matter how keen the child is initially, without the parents’ making the effort to set up regular practice times and make sure they take place, nothing is likely to happen. Yes, there are some children who are very disciplined and motivated despite their age, but most are going to need this kind of structured approach on the parents’ part if they are to keep progressing enough to keep their interest-level high.

Another thing that’s quite useful is for the child to experience other people practicing. They tend to assume that people who are more advanced than they are “never have to work at it” or “never make mistakes,” and it can be hard to convince them otherwise unless they experience it first-hand. I make a point of always practicing my whistle when my daughter is home…not only does she see me modeling the behavior I and her teacher want to see her applying toward her instrument, she also hears me make multiple mistakes as I carefully pick my way through new tunes (and occasionally even really blow it on a well-known tune). I don’t know if the parents of the child you’re teaching are at all musical, but if so, making sure she sees/hears them practice could be very useful. If not, having her sit in on one of your practice sessions might not be a bad idea.

Redwolf

7

Some additional suggestions about helping your students connect to the music.

Music communicates things we find hard to put into words. It is a language that each student must feel their way through. So encourage your students to use the music to express themselves. Play hard, play soft, play slow, play fast; later play major, play minor; later yet, play dorian, play cresendo, and so forth; but … Always relate these techniques to what the student is feeling. Especially with kids and young adults. They are in the process of developing a vocabulary for their feelings during this time, let the music that you teach enrich that vocabulary. In this way every practice session is not ‘work’ , its an opportunity to reflect and express all the mix of feelings they’ve had during the day.

If their practice is also a time for expression, you may want to give them a variety of songs or tunes to work with. Start with simple songs that express simple emotions and ideas; then move towards the more complex array of feeling that is the norm in our daily life.

As a teacher, it helps if you have an range of simple tunes that express a large range of feelings. Then if your student feels happy, or worried, or sad, or afraid, or anything else, then you can key in on that and teach them a song that connects to what they are feeling. This builds the connection between the student and the music as well as between student and teacher. Sometimes kids don’t feel any particular way, just as we do sometimes. On those hazy days simply ask what type of song the student wants to learn. For example, they may not feel sad now, but they might want to learn a song about sadness turning into contentment for later when they need it. Other choices could be a worksong to help a boring job go quicker, a thank you song, a new friend song, a speachless beauty song.

You are not just a guitar teacher, you’re a music teacher. Invite them into this new world so they can see more of why you …

8

On 2002-11-14 14:12, LeeMarsh wrote:
Waist of time is the bulge around my middle

This is why it seemed so wrong that that a boy-chaser might end up to be such a ‘waist’. :wink:

9

First off… please forgive me for even mentioning the waist of time thing! :slight_smile: I will forever view every moment as a great opportunity to expand and grow… (except for around the middle) :smiley: (oooo and the holidays are coming!)

WOW!

This is a lot of great helpful info!!!

I am getting some great ideas.

One thing that I did, which at first I thought it was a bit hokey… Was a game that we played with tempo. The whole time I was thinking what the parents would think about it.

I had the student tap on the guitar by the strings the tempo and sing O Christmas Tree.

And then we did a mock strum covering the strings and sang. I believe the games will be very helpful.


Laura

10

On 2002-11-14 11:50, Wandering_Whistler wrote:

a waist of time? this seems wrong on so many levels. > :wink:

Perhaps this is related to “in the neck of time.” :sunglasses:

11

A hearty “Amen!” to Lee’s advice.

I have 13 children (9 adopted) and nine of them are learning instruments (Fiddles, piano, flutes, whistles, guitar).

Two things that have been invaluable in motivationg the little bugs:

  1. Modeling…When I get my fiddle (or flute or whistle or mandolin or whatever)and start to play I am invariably joined by one or more children.

If it’s important to Dad it’s important to the kids. See if you can get the folks involved. It doesn’t even need to be the same instrument (they could even just sing along).

  1. Performance…This has got to be the single most motivating thing for my kids (even the introverts). Have them play for EVERYBODY :slight_smile: . Whenever a friend or neighbor comes over have the child show them their instrument Have them play a little tune.

Jamm sessions are also fabulous motivators.
We play as a family but also regularly get together with other musicians.

My kids tend to practice a lot the days after we attend a session because they want to do better (keep up) next time.

One of my daughters is reading over my shoulder and nodding her head so it must be true :laughing:(she’s 14 and plays piano, flute, guitar and fiddle).

My youngest players are six (they are on whistle and fiddle).

Have fun!

Doc

12

Children just LEARN.

I’ve heard it said that it’s hard to stop them…but I’m not so sure.

They will learn what they like.
They will learn if it’s fun, even when it’s challenging.
They will learn from repetition of simple things.

To STOP a child from learning something, take away the rewards. Take away the fun. Take away the praise and encouragement.
Tell them off.
Make them feel guilty for not practising.
Make what they are trying to learn seem very hard and difficult.[Play it fast and well yourself]
Don’t allow mistakes.

Just a few random thoughts

Boyd

13

On 2002-11-15 12:35, boyd wrote:
Children just LEARN.

I’ve heard it said that it’s hard to stop them…but I’m not so sure.

They will learn what they like.
They will learn if it’s fun, even when it’s challenging.
They will learn from repetition of simple things.

To STOP a child from learning something, take away the rewards. Take away the fun. Take away the praise and encouragement.
Tell them off.
Make them feel guilty for not practising.
Make what they are trying to learn seem very hard and difficult.[Play it fast and well yourself]
Don’t allow mistakes.

Just a few random thoughts

Boyd

Well…yes and no. Children do absorb learning like a sponge, particularly if it’s something they enjoy. As a parent of a profoundly gifted child, however, I can tell you that it’s not quite that simple. Learning self-discipline, including the importance of practice, is a very important part of the equation.

Children, particularly very bright children, who tend to absorb things easily, can actually get very DISCOURAGED when things don’t just come automatically. I’ve seen so many bright, talented kids just give up because they couldn’t automatically sit down and be brilliant at something. Unless a child has an unusual amount of determination or self-discipline, the encouragement and motivation to keep working at something that isn’t automatically easy (or even always “fun”) has to come from parents and teachers.

With an instrument such as the guitar, a minimal amount of practice (at least a few times a week) is going to be absolutely necessary just to develop the calluses and hand strength required to keep playing from always being a painful chore. It’s also vital to develop the coordination necessary to make playing really fun. If this child is still at the “sore fingers” stage, she’s going to work up a little strength before she’s really going to enjoy playing the guitar enough for self-motivation to come into play.

I don’t think children should be “made to feel guilty” for not practicing…nor do I think that insisting on regular practice is necessarily the teacher’s job (other than an occasional mention). That impetus has to come from the parents…and it should not be a “guilt” thing so much as a matter-of-fact thing (“It takes practice to learn to play a musical instrument. If you want to learn the guitar, you will need to practice”). That’s why I suggested working with the parents, and having them set up a regular practice time for the child, just as they would set aside regular times for doing homework. If the parents are willing to work with the child in this way, it suddenly becomes no big deal. “It’s 5:00…time to practice your guitar! Here, let’s get it tuned. It’s 5:15…official practice time is over. Good job! Why don’t you give your fingers a rest now. My, they’re getting strong, aren’t they?” Make it a part of the regular day-to-day routine.

Some children are ready for this kind of discipline earlier than others. Others may be ready for the imposition of regular practice time, but may not be ready to deal with the necessary physical discomfort learning a string instrument entails. It’s up to the parents to decide when their individual child is ready. My daughter (who is nine) has wanted to learn guitar since she was five, but I didn’t feel she was ready to deal with the “sore fingers” stage until this year (now, when she plays, she’ll mention it, but she’ll also note that she’s getting calluses and that soon it won’t be so painful to play. A year ago, she would have started whining “No! I don’t want to practice! it hurts!” after the first couple of lessons, and probably would have wanted to drop guitar classes fairly early on. By contrast, her best friend has been playing for two years now, and has made significant progress. Each kid is different.

I agree that opportunities for performance…both formal (as in recitals) and informal (in front of family and friends) are important. They give the child a goal to work toward. But they can also be discouraging, if the child isn’t practicing enough to be able to make it through a simple song without multiple mistakes. No matter how supportive and encouraging the audience, the child herself knows that she’s not playing the way she wants to play, and can easily become embarrassed and discouraged.

All I can say is to repeat my earlier advice…work with the parents.

Redwolf

14

…you’ve got to individualise your teaching, as each learner’s needs are different

Boyd

15

Yes, I agree, each individual child should be treated differently.

And yes, a good bit of the resposibility must go to the parents. I will casually speak with her mother.. In a manner that was suggested I do. Like mentioned. It is their money. And I should stop feeling guilty about it.

I am always the type of person that cheats myself over others.


And… eh hem, call me slow, but, I realize what the big deal is with the waist topic.

DUH! DOI! Waist… around the waist.

And the other Waste… disposable waste.

CAll it a confused moment.
Bye, By, Buy, To, Too, Two and They’re, Their and There. :smiley: :wink:

Laura

16

CAll it a confused moment.
Bye, By, Buy, To, Too, Two and They’re, Their and There. > :smiley: > > :wink:

Well, some of us on the forum are too dam’ literate for our own good and comfort (and I count myself among them).

I stopped commenting on people’s spelling when word got back to me that I inadvertently insulted an acquaintance when I corrected her spelling. It was in the quoted material when I responded to her e-mail, and I just did it automatically. Now at least I think about it first…

We all knew what you meant and I hope you weren’t offended. The English/American language is hard even for native speakers! :slight_smile:

Marguerite

17

Nah,

I am not offended. I thought it was funny, once I realized what was going on. :slight_smile:

Was wondering, does other languages have the same problem with multi words that sound the same, but is spelled differently.

I just asked my children, what is the official name for it… one mention synonims.. spelling. Nah, thats not it.

Laura

18

On 2002-11-15 20:58, hillfolk22 wrote:
I am not offended. I thought it was funny, once I realized what was going on. > :slight_smile:

Good deal :slight_smile: I just thought it was cute in a freudian kinda way.

19

On 2002-11-15 20:58, hillfolk22 wrote:

I just asked my children, what is the official name for it… one mention synonims.. spelling. Nah, thats not it.

Homophones, literally “same sound”

http://members.cox.net/errantjuggler/thingsenglish/homophones/

20

On 2002-11-15 20:58, hillfolk22 wrote:
Nah,

I am not offended. I thought it was funny, once I realized what was going on. > :slight_smile:

Was wondering, does other languages have the same problem with multi words that sound the same, but is spelled differently.

I just asked my children, what is the official name for it… one mention synonims.. spelling. Nah, thats not it.

Laura

Homonyms: Words that sound alike but are spelled differently and have different meanings. :slight_smile:

Redwolf the former editor :slight_smile: