Gettin' sick of the same old tunes...

Whistle
1

It’s hard to describe exactly why, but my frustration with the sessions quality in my area as been growing and growing in the past few months. I’m see myself as an “okay” player who throw out a few good tunes.

For example, there is one fiddle player who’s always going to play the same tunes. Maybe he knows, I don’t know, about 100 tunes, but I think he might have only 30 that he’s very comfortable to start, and that’s what he’s doing. Everytime he plays, I know what’s going to be the next tune in his set, and if someone else’s plays a tune from his set, and finished the set with it, the fiddle player will jump in with his tune that “comes next”.

First of all, for some people, it’s as if sets were not changeable. When you play “Butterfly”, you need to play “kid on the mountain”.

Second thing, it’s as if some people werent getting sick of the same old tunes. I don’t know, when I play the same tune over and over again, at one point it becomes boring, I don’t put the same energy in it because, well, it’s the same tune. Then I have a choice, I can work on it again, and put some variations, or learn a new tune. I usually prefer to work on a new tune so that I’m able to share more tunes with people in a session afterward.

When I’m home and I practice, I have lots more fun practicing the new tunes I’ve just learned, even though I like to practice the old ones so that they stay “fresh” in my mind. At a session, I more than often prefer someone to play something new, rather than “Out on the Ocean”, which I love, but is just played too much. I love to have a balance between tunes that everyone knows and all can play, and new tunes or rare tunes that you can listen to and enjoy.

Also, I know many tunes that arent played in our local sessions, and I don’t really enjoy ending up playing by myself. I mean, yeah, that’s fun for a set or two, but the vision Ive got of a session is one where all musicians play together.

Anyway, I seem to get bored with the sessions in my area, and I was wondering if some people shared my frustrations.

2

I hear ya, boss. I’m from California - not the northern part where there are actually a whole mess of great players, the southern part where Celtic music redefines “subculture” - so I really and truly feel your pain. The sessions in the LA area range from decent to perfectly abysmal - and not just any abysmal, I’m talkin’ “seven bodhrans, four guitarists, two records, an autoharp, three renaissance singers, and one sad, sub-par uilleann piper with an out-of-tune chanter” vile. And repetitive repretoire? Let me tell you… by the time I left for college this semester, I was convinced that if I had to listen to “Frank’s Reel” one more time, I would have to give somebody a horse-hair enema.

My personal favorite, though, is the people who show up every week with a page of ten or twelve pre-fab sets that they play every week the exact same way and (even worse) in the same order.

“It’s a session fer (pick an expletive)'s sake - whaddaya need a set-list for?”

And it was so.
(Regaining my composure)
Jamey.

3

Hmmm…you’ve expressed perfectly why I don’t go to a session I had attended for years. I couldn’t really articulate my unhappiness with it, since I had never been to other sessions, but there was the absolute sameness every week. Since it’s run by a guy in his place of business (that’s enough detail for now), he even arranges the sets to suit himself.

Well, the other reason was that one of the fiddle players continually had hissy fits in between times he was complaining that they don’t do it that way in New York.

Thanks–now I’ll know what to try to look for in a session.

M

4

Az, I can certainly understand why playing the same old tunes again and again can become boring. Now, are you the only one in your session who shows any inclination to introduce/learn new tunes? If so, ouch. :slight_smile: If not, do each of you make an effort to learn the new tunes the other player introduces, eg. if you play a new tune, even if you have to do it alone, do any of the other players subsequently show any interest in (learning) the tune?

Just curious…

Jens

5

It’s an old problem Az, it can have many reasons. Sometimes you sit down with someone and establish a repertoire that goes well for you both, if you play with the same person[s] the next time it’s likely you go back to the same tunes the next time because they went well the last time and before you know it you establish a pattern and a certain range of tunes becomes associated with a particular person of setting you play in and for the life of you you can’t think of any others.

You may also be playing with very systematic and organised players. I play a particular session which is headed by the same accordeonplayer for the past four years or so, a professional player and in a sense very organised. Most of the time he has a set program and that’s what he plays. One night folklorist Tom Munnelly was sitting at the bar looked up and said ‘They are playing the Galway Rambler and the Cup of Tea, so it must be ten past eleven now’.
It gets to us sometimes and it’s when he goes on tour and we get in a different accordeonplayer [like now]that we are like a bunch of kids on a schooltour, do all the stuff we usually don’t.
But you can fun with it, during last Willie week I was sitting next to this American woman on the stage and she was amazed I could even play the little runs in between tunes he uses to let everybody know what the next set is going to be, before he acutallly did it. ‘Wow, Are you telepathic o what’ she asked.’ No. I play here every week’.
And it is not because he thinks we are not able for any other tunes [we are] I have seen the same player play with Frankie Gavin Alec Finn and Mary Bergin, it was still the Galway Rambler and The Cup of Tea. It’s a mind set, a way of organising. Personally I have plenty of tunes but when you put me on the stand I won’t be able to think up any. I was put on the spot during the Willie Clancy piping concert this year [I was asked to go on because Mick O Brien was late, a being pulled out of the audience ‘be ready on stage in five minutes’ sort of job] and I blanked out couldn’t think of anything, went into the Silver Spear and hadn’t thought of the next one going into the last bar of that one. There’s something to be said so for organising a few standard sets for situations like that.

On the subject of boring, that came up in the Speed thread as well. I suppose you will have to learn to have the tune in such a way, and understand the music in such a way that you are able to play with the tune on the spot to keep it interesting. Get beyond playing it back the way you practised it at home.
Having a session that plays the same tunes over and over does enable you to play them backwards blindfolded in the end, instead of getting bored and looking for new kicks you can also use the repeated playing to go deeper into the matter and find layers of subtlety that are there waiting for you to find them.


fixed a few typos and did minor clarification




[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-11-20 09:39 ]

6

Az:

Peter makes some very good points. The idea of being creative with a tune was expanded for me last week. I received a clip from Peter of Micho Russell playing what he described as a tune with no name. I learned it and put it on Clips. The tune was nagging at Peter and he figured out that it was actually Curragh Races, transposed with octave variations added. At first listen (or second, third and fourth), some people wouldn’t figure that out - it sounds like a different composition. Then you really delve into it and you can hear what Micho did. Very creative bit of work which creates a fresh, new way to play Curragh Races.

I’m looking at tunes in a whole new way.

Teri

7

Az,

I hoped Peter would come in on this one, and he came up trumps. As one of the handful of people on this forum who regularly attend and play in sessions in Ireland, his insight is valuable.

On the subject of sets, and how tunes get stuck into sets, I have “Paddy O’Brien’s Sets”, edited by Dave Gabol and John Walsh. In the intro, John specifically asks that the tunes be played in the sets as arranged, to keep the memory of Paddy alive.

Following this, the handful of tunes I can play are mostly arranged in sets, and I think of the set as a whole, not 3 separate tunes. This is strengthened by the fact that those sets I’ve learned by ear, I don’t know the individual names of the tunes, if they even have one.

So once a set has become established in a particular session, it may become impossible to break a tune out of the set. At least that way, everyone keeps playing through the whole set, rather than leaving one fiddler accompanied by a half a dozen bodhrans after the first tune.

8

On 2002-11-20 08:27, Teri-K wrote:
Az:

The tune was nagging at Peter and he figured out that it was actually Curragh Races, transposed with octave variations added. At first listen (or second, third and fourth), some people wouldn’t figure that out - it sounds like a different composition. Then you really delve into it and you can hear what Micho did
Teri

Borderline that one Teri, I think you can look at it as a separate tune, a variant of.

9

I can understand Az, especially since the repertoire at the session I am is pretty limited (I don’t mind b/c my repertoire is pretty limited, too). And I do groan occasionally when the Road to Lisdoonvarna comes up, or the Butterfly.

But I wanted to add this: At the session there is an understanding that if you start a tune, you get to go into something else and unexpected after it. If you don’t start looking important and concentrated by the second half of the second B-part, someone else might take it into another tune, which can be really fun. There are, however, a number of set sets, particularly Silver Spear/McMahon’s/Foxhunters and Father Kelly’s/Sligo Maid/Star of Munster. Some of these guys grew up within a few blocks of each other and started playing together as kids. They would go fishing and play O’Neill’s Cavalcade for hours and hours, because it was the only tune they had. Then they got more tunes, listened more, got out more; you get the idea: They grew up musically together. And those sets are part of that, they’ve been playing Silver Spear/McMahon’s/Foxhunters for thirty years. There is comfort and longing in it that you don’t get as keenly in something rarely played.

I wasn’t there thirty years ago, of course. But I love the people at my session and would go just for their company. In those grandfathered sets I can hear how they are doing, what kind of a day they had, what’s on their mind. Adding my day and my thoughts to the mix is a special thrill and it feels like an honor to be able to do so.

10

Jens,

To answer your question, I think that people at our sessions arent really eager to learn tunes that other people play.

Peter,

I understand what you’re saying, but still, I just can’t see myself having fun at a session where you know what the session leader will start playing at a certain time. I always enjoyed creativity, and I can slowly start doing what you described. To add variations to the tune in “real-time”. What I enjoy most at the moment is to make up sets in “real-time”. You know, you play a tune, and at the same time you try to figure out what other tune would go well with it.

I know that it’s possible to take a tune you know and played a lot already, and make it fun again by playing it differently. But I’m not really motivated to do that when I play with people who will just play the tune the same old way, same notes at the same time, exact same parts, etc.

Also, my “vision” of what I session should be might be different than the way you see it. I remember this summer, I was in a private-pub session in Miltown, and there was a very good pipe player, and other good musicians around him. Anyway, he started a set, with a tune that everyone knew, and then switched to another tune that other musicians didnt know. Well, he actually noticed it, and actually switched straight away to a tune that he knew other people knew, and then the “session magik” was back on track.

Some musicians will actually prefer to play on their own, and will try to play tunes by themselves. Some other musicians will actually stick to their pre-defined sets, and it’s up to the others to know the tunes or not. But some will have the session chemistry as a priority, no matter how good they are, and you’re going to end up with a session with different tunes, on-the-fly sets, many musicians playin’ together, etc.

Even if I spend a year in Ireland or so, I think it’s going to be hard for me to find a session that I really like. But I’m sure it’s possible, I’ll just have to keep lookin’ :slight_smile:

I think that for now, the only way is to create my own fun, and do as you said. To play the same old-tunes, but try to be creative with them, so that I can enjoy myself.

11

Azalin,
I too understand what you are saying. Winnipeg is waaaay out in the boonies when it comes to Irish Trad music. There are only about 8 people who play pretty well, and too many who play with what we call here a “prairie celtic” style (heavily influenced by Metis, Old Tyme, Bluegrass, Ukrainian etc.) Most sessions are…shall we say, they require a lot of patience. The occasional session of the trad. players tends to be the same tunes/sets etc.
One thing we did do. Somebody had the idea of making a composite CD of new sets of tunes. Everyone in the group was asked to submit a CD with one or two favourite tracks marked. A CD was burned for everyone, containing everyones new sets. The idea was that everyone was to learn everything, and we would have new repertoire.
A good idea, but in practicality, nobody learned more than the first 2 or 3 tracks. Maybe because it seemed too contrived? I don’t know. But we still end up playing much of the same repertoire.
I too have learned many tunes on my own which I don’t like to play at sessions as I don’t like to play solo too often.
Maybe a solution is to see if anyone at the session is interested in spending a few minutes while to actually teach a new tune. Or else start a tune-sharing meeting where interested people can teach & learn some new tunes. And as you say, you can always play with CDs or practice your technique and variations alone.

12

On 2002-11-20 11:38, Azalin wrote:
I just can’t see myself having fun at a session where you know what the session leader will start playing at a certain time.

I’m really hurt Az that you should express your feelings in this oblique manner by starting a whole long thread instead of telling me to my face.

Well you can rest assured I’ll never play The Green Mountain and The Skylark in front of you again. I can take a hint, even ones as subtle as this. I’m not proud. (Sniff!)

No wait - how about we play them at 10:13 on Tuesdays instead of 9:13 on Mondays?

No wait - who introduced that bloody set anyway?

13

Stephen,

Well, first of all, it’s Mike McHale’s fault… then, if you noticed, last night we played Green Mountain/Roaring Mary, and then I started a set with Maid of Mount Kisco/Craig’s Pipes/Green Mountain, which I totally made up on the fly… not too bad eh?

But yeah, I think that I’m getting sick of your bloody Rambling Pitchfork played on tuesday at 22h16!