I don’t know why, but since getting my Hammy I’ve been thinking about keys. Anyone know why that would be? Anyway, since I in no way have the money for a good keyed flute, was wondering if someone could explain what a German flute is? I’m guessing it just means it was made in Germany sort of like a paki flute today. Is that wrong? Are they fingerings the same? etc.? I’m just thinking that I see them come up on ebay occasionally that are pretty cheap.. Course the Wife would probably hurt me badly since I didn’t get any offers on the Burns…
There were a large number of keyed flutes made in Germany and Saxony in the 19th century, many of which are still around.
These flutes range from good players on down to unplayable.
If you get a good one, it can be a good keyed flute, although they do not have the volume to carry well in any but a small session, and they do have some tuning peculiarities that can make playing them alongside modern instruments challenging.
Unfortunately, it is pretty much impossible (for me, anyway) to tell just by looking at pictures on Ebay whether or not it ever played well, or what condition it is really in. So German flutes tend to be a bit of a “buyer beware” market.
Even the best German flutes will not compare to your Hammy for playability, intonation, tone, and projection–I would think you would be setting yourself up for certain dissapointment.
The one exception is if you are attracted to a flute not for its playability but for its age and uniqueness–and if you can appreciate it for what it is, even if it turns out to be a horrid player, then this might turn out well for you.
I lucked out: my antique 8-key is a pretty good flute. But your chances of finding one that good are pretty slim. And mine didn’t come from an online auction house, but was a family heirloom of a really good friend, having been his great-great-great-grandfather’s flute.
German flutes were made in Germany, but not recently. Most of them are about 100 years old. You are likely to encounter tuning problems and they may be in terrible condition. You would probably have to invest more money than the bid price in order to make it playable.
Jessie, you’re right on about what you have to spend to bring an old flute back to playability.
It took about $300 to get mine playable–not horrible, but not trivial either.
Keyed flutes of various kinds were made in Germany all the way up into the early 20th century. Many German flutes don’t carry a maker’s mark, and if it does you can’t always guarantee it is genuinely that maker’s work. So it can be a real challenge to learn much about these instruments; many times the age can’t even be determined to within 60 years.
Even on the best German flutes, the German ideal of how a flute should play, and of the role the flute should play in an orchestral setting, is far different from that time’s English perspective on flutes and also from the ideal of the “Irish flute” today, which is based in large part upon the characteristics of the English school of flutemaking.
Hey Tony I know how you feel as far as keys go. Dont be afraid to take a chance on ebay. I picked up an Eb 8 key German flute there for a song and fixed the crack myself and freed up the tuning slide myself and it is a great flute. I love the sound of it, and it is easy to play and as loud as I want it to be. I also picked up an 8 key in D from someone right here and I love it as well. I think it is the best way and cheapest way to see if keys are for you. I did get lucky on the Eb but heck just go for it. Another way to go is the east indian Eb or D they sell for 50 bucks. I bought an Eb and all I had to do was to put a good cork in it and set it properly and it is a very playable flute. Now you will get all kinds of different opinions about this subject but dont cheat yourself out of a stab in the dark. It sometimes pays off quite well. Of course I always have a limit as to what I will spend on these flutes and I won`t spend anything on repairs. Just have fun with it.
I have a nice old german flute, too, but I didn’t buy it on eBay either but from a Dave Migoya here on the board. That’s not to say that good flutes aren’t sold on eBay, but I’d tend to look for ones being sold be C&F members, woodenflute mailing list members, or coming from established music shops where they’ll usually say they’ve overhauled it (provided they answer questions about tuning, 440, etc.).
Also, some makers rehab old flutes they find (doesn’t Ralph Sweet do this, and perhaps other makers?), so they could be another source. Finally, they pop up from time to time on the woodenflute sales page. I’ve had some very honest emails from woodenflute listers telling volume for session, etc.
OK, apart from the dangers of buying one, if you get a good one, they can be wonderful and usually are quite unique characters. I play mine about 75% of the time and my Seery the other 25%. The volume is much better the more I play it, and it’s done fine in small sessions and I think would be fine (for me at least) in a bigger session. I hope to get the Seery keyed in a few years when I can come up with some creative story why I need to spend several hundred dollars on keys when I already have a keyed flute. I love keys, simply adore them. BUT, I rarely use them for ITM. However, for most other music I find them indespensible. They DO stablilize the flute on tables, though.
I agree with the caveats posted above, but also with the positive reviews: an acceptable German flute can be hard to find, but the good ones are quite good indeed.
My first flute was an old German one that I played for 10 years. Chris Abell picked it out from a case of flutes that someone had sent him, and he fixed it up for me. It was just fine for sessions and had a clear, penetrating tone. I sold it to a friend, who took it to Ireland with him last year and several flute players there wanted to buy it from him.
I’ve never heard a German flute that could match the warmth or complexity of tone of the great English flutes, but you could do much worse than buying a good German flute.
You won’t find many 200 year old German flutes , Jessie but an awful number of (awful ) 100 year old ones .Of course the flute was generally called The German Flute in Britain 200 years ago , ( but that was before the war ! ).
Many years ago when I was a callow youth ( I’m still only 39 - have been for many years ) I was told by one of the leading violin restorers of the day that if anybody asked me what a violin was I should say it was German .I’d have an 80% chance of being right .
Yeah, the 200 year thing is way off – most were made around the turn of the 20th century. Many of the anonymous ones were sold through Sears Roebuck. Most were made in Germany, but a great number were made in the states, by German makers.
That said, they cannot be compared to todays Pakistani flutes; they were generally well made, and some are quite good. Some aren’t, but that is true for many English flutes as well. They usually have a better upper register, as they were really made to play then-contemporary tunes, not ITM, but I can get a decent low D on the one I own.
Regarding volume, I disagree with James – most can hold their own in any session. Like Brad, I started on a decent German flute, and played it for years; still do, sometimes. My Hamilton is certainly louder, but most volume comes from the player – the German can be heard quite well over pipes and accordians. I even like its slightly quirky tuning, and – unlike my Hamilton – I can use baroque cross-fingerings on it, if I want, instead of the keys. If it were only a bit more comfortable to hold, I would probably use it more frequently.
Every time I think to sell it, it charms me into hanging on a bit longer..
Gordon
Oh, one last caveat, just for clarification’s sake.
The term German flute has been around a long time, and has meant different things at different times. I said Jessie’s date was way off, but there were flutes called German flutes as old or older than that. Baroques were often called German flutes, for example, as many makers were German. And then there were some really nice flutes made in Germany for classical music in the early to mid 19th c., and if we were to mention that we have a “German” flute to sell, we’d probably not mean some superb mid-century example.
When we talk about German flutes here, we do usually mean the latter-day flutes that proliferated as the conicals disappeared; many were sold into the first decade or two of the 20th century.
Someone mentioned that these latter-flutes were not as appropriate for ITM as their English counterparts. This has become true, as trends have developed, but keep in mind that most of the old players we often idolize, the average flute player in Ireland, or NYC, or Chicago a century or fifty years ago, probably played a German flute.
Gordon
In the case of my particular flute, I’m actually guessing that it was made in Germany or thereabouts. There’s no maker mark at all.
We do know who owned it–this flute belonged to Aaron Harding’s Great-Great-Great-Grandfather–but not at what time in his life he aquired it. Still, though, it is very unlikely it could have been made much later than the American Civil War, as he is supposed to have been murdered shortly following that.
I wish I knew more about this flute. Sadly, the unforunate circumstances of the end of his life seem to be what is mainly remembered about its original owner.
The circumstances of his murder was that he was a physician, and was coming home after dark after having seen a patient, when he was attacked by robbers, who beat him and drove a large nail or spike into his head, and then left him for dead.
He came to and lived long enough to make his way home and spoke to his wife before he died. She took his flute and hung it on the wall for a momento.
This flute was a wall decoration for generations before it came to me. When I first got it the wood was so dessicated that it weighed almost nothing, and the wood was a light grey tan color, with a light purple, knurled grain running through it.
I wish I had had the sense to take some “before and after” pictures; this flute does not look like the same instrument.
At any rate, his death does not seem to have been related to his flute playing, though it may well have related to the unrest following the War. Those were deeply troubled times.
Mine has that pin sticking out, but it’s just the end of a big screw that screws into the cork and is also connected to the end cap…I don’t think it does any adjusting, though.
BTW - that flute/picollo duo looks very nice. Looks like it goes down to low B. In all honesty, it looks fully restored and playable, but since I don’t know the seller I obviously can’t swear it’s in perfect shape.
If the pin is connected to the cork, it’s meant to be a visible indication of the cork position. This was the time when people had to play on a wide variety of tunings (both lower and sharper than what we use today) and they had to compensate by moving the cork a little bit. In my limited experience, the visible indication that this provides is not very useful; i always end up sticking a stick in the headjoint to find out where the cork is.
