I wonder how linguists/anthropologists/whoever came to that conclusion. There are various words in English for sex, various anatomical parts, etc., and only some are considered vulgar, and even some of those not by all English-speaking cultures nor in all contexts. (I remember when I was about 12, wondering something wasn’t bleeped out [on American TV] from the Monty Python line, “Socrates himself was permanently pissed”, not knowing that it meant drunk in England.)
It’s also interesting how some words come into “polite” usage as others become “vulgar.” The word ass came into usage initially as a euphemism for arse. Within, I think, a century the two had reversed roles, and they’ve switched periodically since. Some words that were in anatomical texts within the last century or two are now among the “worst” words one can say; the current, less specific medical terms are euphemisms that were invented to satisfy prudes/language police/whatever.
I’m all for being considerate, even when I find the rules silly or don’t agree with them. I ask some people to say grace when I have them over to dinner, even though I’m not religious or spiritual in any way. It costs me nothing, and it is important to them. I do occasionally use words that might offend some, but it’s usually done consciously because the word I select is simply better at describing what I’m trying to describe. Respect and consideration are two-way streets, and if I move my language yardstick 99% of the time, I don’t think it unreasonable that others ought to be able to move theirs 1% of the time.
PS – that last paragraph isn’t meant to imply that I condone crudity on TV or in the forum, nor that I haven’t observed a general downhill slide in civility in the last few decades.
Oh, the jokes are still there…they’ve just substituted more (currently) politically correct subjects. Actually, the kids in my daughter’s school like to make such jokes about homeless people and Arabs. I don’t like it…I stop it when I hear it…but when that’s what they hear at home and on the street and on TV, one yard duty parent isn’t going to make a difference.
And I do think it’s a sad thing that we have allowed crudities to “lose their punch.” What’s wrong with teaching kids that a little more politeness in the public quarter is a good and kind thing? Of course, that’s hard to do in a culture where you can drive past a downtown, upscale lingerie store and see a sign proclaiming “May is national masturbation month.”
Oh Redwolf, surely not! National M********** Month!! Words fail me. As a nation we stop today to honor those who fought to make this nation free. Ouch! What are they going to think?
I kid you not. And this wasn’t in some red light district, but right in the middle of Santa Cruz’s main shopping street. It was my 11-year-old who pointed it out.
Y’know, I’m really quite liberal in a lot of ways, believe me. You have no idea. But that sign just strikes me as puerile. The context of its placement really undoes any conceived “good” in the message. If any.
Context counts when it comes to efficacy of communication. But in my world, it’s not all about me. sigh I’m a fish out of water no matter where I turn.
Bowlderizing the title to “The Choice Wife”, “The Good Wife” or “The Boy in the Bush” (very funny renditions of what the words actually translate as, imho) is exactly the point I was making…I don’t think we’re more crude than humanity has been historically. I think that actually we are less crude, and a lot more PC.
I tend to agree wtih emmline, that these things are cyclical, and we’re slowly coming out of a prim cycle.
Unfortunately, our slide down the slope to the point where anything goes, in the way of verbal, visual crudities, rob our children of something those of us who grew up in the 50’s (as messed up as that was) took for granted- childhood. Today’s kids are forced to deal with subjects at an early age,subjects that they should not even know about yet, because of our society.
Everyone is so careful to be politically correct, but thinks nothing of using language, advertising, etc. that use to be accepted as inappropriate, and is now so common it’s not even notable to most.
It is truly offensive to some, and thank heaven there are a few left in this day and time.
I’ll end this rant by repeating a very appropriate quote from James that he posted eariler in this thread. I completely agree-
“What I also find distressing is where history teaches this progression leads if nothing happens to alter it.”
I find crudeness has increased a lot. Not only that, so has crassness and even coarseness! It is unbelievable how many people today are willing to curse in mixed company. There is no respect, either for women, or for children, or for much of anybody, involved in choice of words, which the so-called political correctness tries to spread a thin coating over.
it is in itself interesting to see the shock here about ‘national masturbation month’ having the terminology quickly goign into [euphemistic?] onanism and m********** while in another thread on tourist information for those travelling to Britain it is freely discussed if ‘English food is worth interrupting your afternoon WANK for?’ without anybody taking the slightest bit of notice.
A novel I read recently contained discussion of the form of morality vs the content of morality. It contrasted Seventeenth Century Europeans with late Twentieth Century Americans. The former group was extremely conservative on the subject of blasphemy while being quite cheerfully vulgar in their everyday speech and behavior, whereas the latter see public vulgarity in action or language as inappropriate while not blanching at "blasphemy’ which would have made the older group’s blood run cold.
Which would you rather live in - a country that talks dirty but feels shame over acts of torture - or one that is punctilious in speech but condones the Holy Inquisition?
Form vs. content: is it better to sound moral or to demonstrate morality?
Hehe! Or when they released a movie here called Austin Powers, the Spy Who Shagged Me, and the Americans had no idea. I wonder if in Britain it was released as The Spy Who F***ked me.
Crude is better than prim, IMO, if it must be one
or the other.
By the way, bemoaning our declining society seems
to be part of civilization–I’ve read that the first
Egyptian hieroglyphic deciphered said that the
younger generation is going to the dogs.
Peter, note, too, that I reduced the month to a week!
As mentioned, the 50s left its psychic scars.
Air was clean; sex was dirty.
Agreed with Jim 101%.
There are more obscene things than dirty talk in today’s world, and I still suspect it’s greatly due to lack of sex for those who lust for gold or violence instead.
and napalm smelled good.
The smell, you know that gasoline smell. Smells like victory.
Of course there are worse things than crudity or coarseness, but to me it’s a symptom of a declining society - and maybe it is just declining for right now and there’ll come a time when people are respectful again (how exactly would that work?), but I would prefer my daughter be taught about these things at home, not on the street or the schoolyard or in the school or from the magazine covers at the grocery store, and on and on… (and yes, I have taught her).
I liked Charlie’s statement that it doesn’t cost him anything to be polite and considerate of other people and their feelings. I totally agree.
I see rap culture as the most responsible for making the kids TALK dirty. Also, the intense objectification of both men and women has been a combo of the rap stuff and the quick-to-profit television culture.
The concepts of whores, pimps, “bitches” etc seems to be daily SPOKEN reality whereas all of these terms were rare in my youth. All three of the words have had their definition expanded and entered mainstream language. A few years back, I was fairly distressed, as a big-time PTA volunteer at my son’s school, to see a father at Open House wearing a “I’m the real Pimp Daddy” t-shirt. I am not even sure what the heck the shirt meant, frankly…
When I zip around the tv looking for shows, there are several “reality” shows that very much characterize the protagonists in frank sexual ways, whether they are out on a fake, televised date or trying to influence someone via their sexuality. But so much is tied together that its hard to discern. For example, because we have so many people in the US incarcerated since the phony war on drugs was ratcheted up, that the whole subject of prison homosexuality is quite public these days. The appellation of “bitch” has entered mainstream language both in its prison meaning as well as just a generalized way of saying that a guy manipulates other guys to do his bidding, in the workplace etc etc.
And even though I watch all those LawnOrder SUV shows, I sometimes reflect how the general public has learned much more lurid details about sex crimes than I ever thought possible because of this show and others.
People are just portrayed as sexually-usable meat in so many contexts of screen, print and Internet that its heart-breaking. I keep thinking that AbuGhraib is a manifestation of it, notwithstanding “serious” methods of interrogation that have been claimed.
And though it seemed that the Women’s movement somehow triumphed by raising consciousness of objectification of women (beauty pageants, advertising icons etc etc), it’s worse than ever now in that area, despite gains in employment, law etc.
