Does any one know the name, and where one might find the tune, Gen. Custer and the Seventh Calvery use to play?
The seventh cav also used first" The Girl I Left Behind Me".What would a canadien know about the American Army?
I didn’t know you wrote in French, Eubiedubie. In English it is “Canadian,” in French it is “Canadien.” And what girl did you leave behind you? And some us do know a lot about the US Army.
But my favourite tune right now is “Pull the knife and stick it in.” Or " I buried my wife and danced on her grave."
Did you know, that after the battle of the Little Big Horn, the Sioux women went around to dead of the US Cavlary and punctured their ears, so that they may listen better in the after life, or hear the voice of the Great Spirit.
Mark
If we start like that one might wonder what Americnas think they know about Irish tunes (and yes I know most of the guys fighting for Custer were irish anyway)
My information has it that the origin and history of the tune is murky.
Perhaps someone who has done research into this period can help. I have read a source – Sue Cifaldi, in “The Bread and Butter of Jamming,” a fife-tune book – that the association between Custer and the Seventh Cavalry and the tune “Garryowen” is not supported by any historical record. Sue is the librarian-archivist for “The Company of Fifers and Drummers,” a super organization of fife and drum corps, and is apparently in a position to know. Does any one have definite information on this?
My own opinion is that the myth, and well it may be, began with a black-and-white film of Custer’s career, starring Errol Flynn as Himself, in which the tune figured prominently.
With regard to the tune itself, I have read that “Garry Owen,” or “Garryowen,” can be read as a corruption of the Gaelic term for a garden or a kind of park. The story went that it became infested with gangs of rowdies who started by knocking on the doors of neighboring houses at 0-dark:30 and running away, then graduated to more general mayhem and destruction. This, if true, can explain the lyrics of the song to a degree.
Whatever the origin, it is a rousing tune and one of my favorites.
I had a chat the other day with a British expatriate, who freely admitted I knew much more about Scottish regiments in the British Army than he did. I am not British, nor have I played one on TV. I guess it all depends upon where one’s interests lie.
Custer had it coming! He wore arrow shirts! he died for your sins! Here in Deadwood with all the amateur historians, and being all of twenty two miles away from the headquarters of the 7th Cavalry at Ft. Meade, it’s been popularly accepted that Gary Owen is the theme song of the 7th Cav. However, as I discovered during our Wild Bill Days, the 7th Cav band didn’t know the song. Last summer, after running into a biker banjo player during the motorcycle rally, we both got drafted by the “Trial of Jack McCall” and the street gunfighters to stand in the middle of the sidewalk and play Gerry Owen to block the street audience for the gunfights from taking off, and heading for the casinos but to get them into the wax museum and theater. We decided it might not be a bad idea because the police were hassling people for playing on the main street. We played Gerry Owen we did, and the tourists marched right into the wax museum like good little kindergartners following the Pied Piper. Maybe it’s good the Indians didn’t play the dang thing or they would have won in the long run. What the whole point is, danged if I know, but I still get nightmares about it, after seeing Big Little Man a few times…why did they have to ruin a perfectly good jig for me by massacring women and babies to that tune? What’s really neat, though, the living history actors around here are accepting the idea that during the Civil War, you were more likely to hear a penny whistle than a harmonica around those camp fires! With all the whistles I’ve given to kids and all the hassles I’ve gotten for just playing in the streets during the summers, it’s nice to know that whistles and whistlers are making inroads!
[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2001-10-08 06:30 ]
Hi Neil
I heard or read somewhere the same thing about GarryOwen, but for the life of me I can’t remember where. But do like tune ever since I could whistle it (lips) as a kid.
Mark
Oh Anna!!!
You type to fast!!!
What are " he wore arrow shits" !!!
Mark
The tune is Gary Owen and there’s a nice rendition in Micho Russel’s The Piper’s Chair.
On 2001-10-07 11:44, MarkB wrote:
Oh Anna!!!You type to fast!!!
What are " he wore arrow shits" !!!
Mark
Blush, blush, gigglesnort, snickergiggle…oy, sorry for the typo!
The subject of Custer and the Little Bighorn is always likely to generate an interesting discussion, especially if broached somewhere west of the Mississippi and east of the Left Coast.
Anna, if you’re interested, that tune they medlied “Garryowen” with in “Little Big Man” during the massacre along the Washita is called “St. Patrick’s Day In The Morning.” You can also hear it as the Grand March in the beginning of “Fort Apache,” with John Wayne, Henry Fonda, and Ward Bond.
Both “Garryowen” and “St. Pat’s” are excellent tunes, and popular among Civil War reenactors. My approach is to remember that my era of interest happened a decade before the events along the Rosebud, Washita, and the Little Bighorn.
I’ve seen “Little Big Man” several times, and think it’s an excellent movie but rather poor history. For those interested, Robert Utley has written some histories of that era, including the Battle of the Little Bighorn itself, that are considered to be quite good. He was superintendent of Custer Battlefield National Park for a time, and has made quite a study of the Custer Fight.
Also for Anna: For what it’s worth, I have read that the little metal sheets that separate the parts of a harmonica are found at campsites used by armies in the Civil War, and have seen some of these pieces displayed in museums. I have never heard of the remains of a pennywhistle being found, nor have I seen one on display. That doesn’t mean they weren’t used, but may have something to say about relative popularity among the troops.
Best regards,
Neil Dickey
[ This Message was edited by: ndjr on 2001-10-07 18:00 ]
Thank you all for the great responces, and a brief lesson in history. So Gary Owen it is. I always thought the general heard it in a bar, and liked it, of course after a hundred years or so legernds grow.
see ya
The tune ‘Garryowen’ was popular in the British army during the same period. Some tunes went all round the world.
that was fun Mark
On 2001-10-07 19:43, Spot Beagle wrote:
I always thought the general heard it in a bar, and liked it, of course after a hundred years or so legernds grow.
Yup, they do! The scene you describe is straight out of the Errol Flynn movie I mentioned earlier in the thread.
I read a book by Stephen Ambrose this summer entitled “Custer and Crazy Horse; The Parallel Lives of Two American Warriors”. In the book, Ambrose refers to Gary Owen as the favorite tune of the 7th Calvary. The Girl I Left Behind Me was also popular with the 7th Calvary, and Custer would have the band play it whenever his wife was with him on the frontier, as the troops left the fort. It was common for bands to accompany troops into battle back then. Fortunately, the band stayed on the boat when Custer had his fateful encounter with Crazy Horse.
Thanks for the information. Does Ambrose give a source for his statement? If he cites a reference, would you mind either posting it or sending it to me by private e-mail? If there is an authoritative source it would be an important contribution.
My dad told me years ago he watched a documentary on Irish immigrants in the US and there was mention of Irish soldiers in the war with Mexico (the one with Davy Crockett and all). The Mexicans could hear the soldiers at their evening campfires singing “Green Grows the Grass, Oh,” so they named the soldiers “gringos.” I’m not familiar with that song, by the way.
Tony
Here’s the first verse:
Green grow the lilacs, all sparkling with dew.
I’m lonely my darlin’ since parting with you,
But at our next meeting I hope to prove true
And change those green lilacs for the red white and blue.
The song has been popular with folk singers and at summer camps for decades. I have read the etymology of the term “gringo” described as you indicate, but there are other explanations as well: It could be a slight corruption of the spanish word for Greek, “griego,” used in the sense of “foreigner.”