Hi there,
On the topic of Martin Byrne’s and good fiddle music, I was wondering if there are any flute players who can match/rival the rhythmic groove/subtlety and musicality of the great fiddlers? I’m thinking of fiddlers like Paddy Canny, Martin Rochford, Martin Byrnes, Julia Clifford, Tommy Peoples, Bobby Casey (ok you can see a slight bias to the Clare persuasion). I’m starting to be of the opinion that a fiddler’s groove and subtlety is hard to beat - when we’re talking about a high standard of playing. Any flute players who can match them at their game?
Seamus Tansey, Matt Molloy, etc. Lots of great flute players. Personal style and technique are two different things. Just because a person chooses not to play in a certain way does not mean they aren’t capable to play that way.
djm
Kevin Crawford is one player who immediately pops into my mind. His playing is in the smooth modern style, but to my ear is firmly rooted in the Clare style. You’d especially dig his album In Good Company, which is nearly all duets with fiddlers. You might also check out Jack and Charlie Coen’s album The Branch Line – Jack is a great East Galway player with a spare, bare-bones style that nonetheless rocks.
I totally agree with Rob, but while you’re at it don’t forget Mike Rafferty. He’s got three great CDs with his daughter Mary on the box, all of them done in the last decade. Mike is around 75 now, but I’d say he’s also in his musical prime at the moment. Well worth a listen!
Despite my affection for the flute, I just don’t think it’s quite in the same league as the fiddle. The flute players mentioned above are indeed talented and musical (as are many more, living and dead, who could be added to the list), but I can’t think of any flute player who truly matches the depth and subtlety of the great fiddlers. Maybe it’s the instrument itself; it’s physically more limited than the fiddle in terms of its range, for example. You could take a great flute player and ask them to play one of Tommy Potts’s versions of a tune, note for note, and it wouldn’t have the same emotional impact as Tommy Potts playing it on the fiddle. That’s partly because Tommy Potts was Tommy Potts, but I think it’s also partly because Tommy Potts was playing fiddle.
It’s odd, because the flute arguably has a more direct connection to the player’s emotions than the fiddle, you’re using your breath rather than a bow. Maybe the flute tradition hasn’t emphasized subtlety to the same extent as the fiddle tradition has. There’s a common tendency among flute players to place a high value on power, rhythm, and energy, and to judge players on those qualities rather than on subtlety and depth.
Oh, and as for Kevin Crawford: If all you’ve been exposed to of him is Lunasa, you really ought to check out his In Good Company CD that Rob mentioned, as well as the couple of CDs that his old band Moving Cloud put out. (They’re on Green Linnet, so you could actually steal them in good conscience, knowing that you’d not be taking a cent out of Kevin’s pocket by doing so.) In many ways, Kevin’s a totally different flute player when he’s not on stage with Lunasa…
Just saw Brad’s comment, and I’d have to say I agree with him as well. If it’s emotional impact and a unique, soulful connection between player and tune (a la Tommy Potts) that you’re after, the only flute player fitting that description who comes to my mind would probably be Micho Russell, although he’s better known on the whistle. You can definitely say that his playing came direct from his soul, and was truly unlike anyone else’s. (Except for maybe his brother Gussie, who I don’t think I’ve ever heard…)
Maybe the flute tradition hasn’t emphasized subtlety to the same extent as the fiddle tradition has.
There has certainly been a longer tradition of virtuosity for fiddlers – stretching all the way back to Michael Coleman and James Morrison. The only flute player who equals Coleman’s innovation and influence is Matt Molloy, and the flute-playing world is still assimilating what he’s accomplished.
I’m not sure, but I think you may be referring to the dynamic range of the fiddle versus flute. I would agree that few trad flute players go very much for trying to pull any dynamics from the flute (Harry Bradley does it live, but not on the albums he’s recorded so far). Also, you would have to have some of the newer, better quality flutes that are designed to do this.
djm
I think the different parts of this discussion are sliding past eachother a bit. As I understand it Eld is not particularly looking for virtuosity but for rhythmic subtlety as in the playing of the fiddleplayers he mentioned. now i think of it, that is exactly what he said.
As Brad suggested the fiddle is more capable of that sort of intricacies than the flute. There’s an awful lot you can do on the fiddle. The pipes can do a lot too but not quite as much as the fiddle. And so on. Some instruments lend themselves better to one approach than to another.
Flutes work admirably well complementing the rhtyhms of fiddleplayers though, personally i am quite fond of Michael Murphy and JC Talty’s duet on the Tulla bands 40 year anniversary album, the two instruments dancing around eachother very nicely.
Well, actually I was referring to the melodic range; i.e. that the concert flute doesn’t go below D (or C if you have the bottom keys), whereas the fiddle goes down to G, but also I guess I was referring to the range of possibilities that are available on the fiddle but not on the flute. I have friends who are very good flute players who took up the fiddle because it allowed them to play things in ways that they just can’t do on the flute. I’m not knocking the flute by any means – I’m a flute player myself and I’ve never played fiddle – but I do think the fiddle offers more possibilities, fewer limitations.
As far as dynamics go, you’re right, not many flute players in recent years have explored that, although I think you’ll hear some of it on Harry’s “As I Carelessly Did Stray” album when he plays The Old Maids of Galway and My Maryanne…such a different approach in tone and technique from most of the other tracks on that album. And yes, he does vary his dynamic range a lot in concert, to great effect. I think some flute players may be leery of doing too much variation in the dynamic range department for fear of being seen as stealing a signature trick from Martin Hayes (who exploits dynamic range to its fullest) or for trying to sound too “classical” instead of taking the constant full-bore give-it-a-lash approach.
I’ll take an hour of Harry’s flute over five minutes of Martin’s fiddle any day! 
djm
This is a tough one, and I don’t think I like to compare really. But if I had to choose one instrument that I would get to hear for the rest of my days, to the exclusion of all others, it would undoubtedly be fiddle. (Sorry, Peter, I love the pipes and everything, but… 
)
Yes, there are many simple finger system flute players
that can match the Irish fiddlers’ rhythmic subtleties and depth
but you won’t find them readily in the Irish Traditional Music circles.
Such flute players are found in another tradition
in which the rhythmic subtlety and depth of the human voice,
which is unsurpassed, is the operative paradigm
for all its instrumentalists.
The relevance of this other tradition’s flute playing
to ITM can be seen by the fact that certain ITM flautists
and those of related traditions (eg Breton)
are availing themselves of this other tradition,
with a view to utilising its offerings
for their ITM purpose.
(On a separate vein, I also totally agree with
djm’s first post in this topic.
Also, there are Irish flutey things that the fiddlers cannot rival.
And? So? …)
That’s okay. You’re allowed.
djm
michael tubridy, michael falsey, seamus mac mathuna, tom morrison.
Oh well. I might be
mistaken but I think you have
totally missed the point
I am actually talking about
playing the diddly.
A nuanced diddly rhythm does
not come from imitating flute
players from other traditions I
dont think.
Best,
Eld
Nothing to be sorry about I play the pipes but listen to the fiddle, nothing comes near the fiddle for subtlety and expression.
As a flute player learning the button accordion, I can only say that subtlety’s a neat gimmick if you like that kind of thing.
Maybe I have missed it but I hope I haven’t messed it.
BTW,
I also missed your response to the “Butterfly” on mopane flute
question in the “instruments that irk me” topic.
