First Bb experience...

A friend just took delivery of a Blackwood Olwell Bb flute a few days ago, and I got to play it for a spell last night.

Wow. Is all I. Can. Say. I mean, I’ve got dozens of tracks played on Bb flutes and have always loved the sound, but in-person, to be driving such a sultry, smooth beast is something else entirely!

While reels and jigs sounded cool at their normal speedier tempos, the insturment verily begs you to just ‘chill’ and explore the melody in a more leisurely fashion. Airs transported me to another space I’d never experienced before on my D flute. Also kinda of fun: my D flute felt like a fife after adapting to the stretch of the big Bb, as well :slight_smile:

Geeze, I WAS going for an Eb midsection for my D flute, initially but that soothe voice of the Bb may call a bit stronger now :astonished:

Cheers,

  • Ryan

Oh yes yes yes! :smiley: I’ve had the same kind of experience with my Bb(Casey Burns),oh how I love this flute. Most wonderful thing I’ve ever played, I think. And the big resonant tone is just so awesome, fills the room even though it’s softer that the D flute. I don’t think it’s quieter, not sure, but it is softer, if that makes any sense. Big resonant soft sultry wonderful tone. :sunglasses: Oooh, and the other day I played it and this cute guy was there, and he said “That sounded really good,” like he meant it. Heh heh. :wink:

You are all aware of why the Bb is so much more satisfying aren’t you?
A little while ago, scientists measured the resonant frequency of the Cosmic background radiation which permeates the universe.

It’s a B flat. About 57 octaves below middle C.

You’re in tune with the universe, man.

:slight_smile:

I must be in tune with that frequency too. I was listening to a tune on Cathal McConnells’ ‘Long Expectant Comes at Last’ album, “The Flower of Finae” track, and liked his flute playing the melody, until I heard the Bb flute in the background kick in about a third into the track-now, THAT’S a flute! It’s got a soul and grace different from the standard D!

I have been eyeing Casey’s Bb since then, too! Ah, someday, I hope. The Bb seems like it would be a good match for my temperment. Thanks Casey! He seems to be doing a lot of good things with flutes. All I have to do is get one! I can’t wait to be in tune with the Universe!

Casey’s Bb flute is real nice! I got to try one when I visited him last summer. The reach on the tone holes is not much more then a standard D flute, and it has a nice rich tone.
Jon

Oh, This isn’t about the Bb fife? :confused:

One octave Lower! :boggle:

Bye. :slight_smile:

The radiation is Bb now.
With the creep in pitch I wonder what it was playing at 14 billion years ago, Fyffer ?

Yes, also his A body, which fits the same head joint,
fingers virtually the same as the Bb.

I’ve been drooling at the CB Bb for months now. I’m getting one too very soon.

Relativistically speaking, wouldn’t we have heard it as Bb anyway? And won’t we still a billion years hence?

Nah, who wants to tune to some resonance in noise, when you can tune to something much closer and more fundamental to us, the very rotation of the Earth itself!

The Schiller Intitute pushes for (among many other things) a return to the old Philospophical Pitch of C256, which equates to A=431.6 Hz.

“C=256 has a uniquely defined astronomical value, as a Keplerian interval in the solar system. The period of one cycle of C=256 (1/256 of a second) can be constructed as follows. Take the period of one rotation of the Earth. Divide this period by 24 (=2×3×4), to get one hour. Divide this by 60 (=3×4×5) to get a minute, and again by 60 to obtain one second. Finally, divide that second by 256 (=2×2×2×2×2×2×2×2). These divisions are all Keplerian divisions derived by circular action alone. It is easy to verify, by following through the indicated series of divisions, that the rotation of the Earth is a “G,” twenty-four octaves lower than C=256. Similarly, C=256 has a determinate value in terms of the complete system of planetary motions.”

Read more at:
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/fid_911_jbt_tune.html

A=431.6 would be good for those of us playing 19th century flutes - the tuning is generally much better down there! Not surprisingly perhaps, that’s where it seems pianos in the period were tuned.

And getting back to the topic of Bb flutes, a trio of new tunes played on Bb flutes by their composers at:

http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Low%20flute%20models.htm

Terry

Cosmic! Literally!

Wouldn’t a tuning based on the Golden Section be more in tune aesthetically?

You mispelled uilleann on your Bb page, Terry. Arriviste!

Eeek, you’re right, Dude! Thanks, corrected. I have made them, just can’t spell them! Stick to the floote I reckon.

Hmmm, a google search on “uillean” gave 41,500 hits (compared to 106,000 for the nn version)! I wonder if it’s becoming common English usage?

Terry

Possibly, but it probably means something like “armpit hair.”
For the record, Leo Rowsome published a tutor for the Uileann Pipes. Seamus Ennis thought Leo “The best flute player we have on the chanter,” which was Seamus’s way of dissing him.

I think you’re all very strange… while Bb is certainly a smooth, mellow sound, I’ve always had a strong preference for D, even before I ever got interested in ITM.

I think, every key has its own flavor… C is very bland (but you can build anything on it for that reason), D is very lively, G is very full and rich, Bb is very expressive. I expect it’s all some sort of conditioning from being exposed to western music since childhood.

I seem to recall that historically the root note kept creeping up in pitch in search of a ‘brighter’ sound. I wonder if this isn’t purely because a pitch above what you’re used to sounds brighter, and below sounds deeper, and what you’re most used to just sounds bland.

But nonetheless, I’m glad you enjoy it. Oh, and if you end up with a ‘useless’ D flute after ‘upgrading’ to Bb, just give it to me. :wink:

–Chris

What is strange is that a large proportion of music played on Irish flute is in G major and E minor. So I find your post a little strange.

I do not believe that keys have flavours ipso facto. It is interval relationships that obtain flavour to particular notes.

Let’s just take the D note that you like. The D tonic in a D Ionian piece will have a different flavour to the same D tonic in a D Dorian piece using C flute. Play D Phrygian on a Bb flute and that same D tonic has a different flavour. You played D Ionian on the D flute just now. Now play D Mixolydian on the SAME flute. The D now has an unresolved wistful flavour. You see what I mean?

You can transpose all these and other effects to any key and you will get the same flavours according to the mode (particular relationship of intervals) rather than key specific absolutes.

There is nothing mystical about the Bb key. Its just that coincidentally you got a LOWER pitch with the Bb flute. The doggie in our psyche prefers the lower pitch!
That’s why the A fife sounds better than the Bb fife.
see?
:smiling_imp:

I think I said a lot of good things in my last post but I am haunted by my own challenging statement here. I am beginning to feel I am wrong. I cannot deny it. Its really strange. There IS something distinctly Venusian about D!

Well there you go … I give in.

Thanks Terry for drawing attention to C=256Hz scientific tuning and the work of the Schiller Institute! This is amazing stuff! Maybe it is worth noting that the rise in orchestral pitch was resisted by singers, who found it uncomfortable to sing the classical repertoir in a raised pitch since it did not suit the natural vocal registers (see The Schiller Institute’s Chart of Human Vocal Registers). It was the French government who passed a law in order to preserve a more natural pitch:

In the late 1850’s, the French government, under the influence of a committee of composers led by bel canto proponent Giacomo Rossini, called for the first standardization of the pitch in modern times. France consequently passed a law in 1859 establishing A at 435, the lowest of the ranges of pitches (from A=434 to A=456) then in common use in France, and the highest possible pitch at which the soprano register shifts may be maintained close to their disposition at C=256. It was this French A to which Verdi later referred, in objecting to higher tunings then prevalent in Italy, under which circumstance ``we call A in Rome, what is B-flat in Paris.‘’

(I had to put in this quote because its a reference to Bb, so I am not totally of topic :slight_smile: ) The quote was from the next link:

I found A Brief History of Tuning also extremely interesting to read, since it points out a political connection to create a standard pitch of A=440Hz, championed by Nazi Germany in alliance with Britain and excluding the French. Although I read that an international standard pitch was never agreed on despite several attempts, it appears that A=440Hz has become de facto standard, and perhaps (??) much helped by the spread of electronic instruments (keyboards) and musical aids.

Talasiga, I do agree that it is the sequence of intervals which create a musical mood and mode, and not the individual note or the tonic of the mode. But nervertheless I think that we as singers, players and listeners also resonate with individual notes and how they are pitched in absolute terms, and that we can feel this absolute pitch, even if we are not conscious of it. It has an effect, a physical resonance which goes beyond simple cultural conditioning.

A personal anecdote:
Apart from playing the flute I love playing mandola, which mostly I do on my own. I am again and again amazed that after having tuned to A=440Hz in order to play with friends my tuning of the instrument gradually settles down about half a semitone lower, and I am most comfortable with this tuning, which seems to be close to the scientific pitch of C=256Hz.

Has anyone similar experiences, perhaps even with the flute?

~Hans

I am starting to sing a lot with E and G tonics lately to the point of obsession.

I am also obsessed with the cross fingered C on the Irish flute as a tonic for C Yaman and C Bhoop/Pahadi. It allows unique dip down ornamentations that no-one else seems to be doing. And there is something particularly sweet about this X fingered 7th as a tonic on the Irish flute. More seductive than the same on bansuris. Is it the C or the Irish flute? Hmmm? Or a bit each way?