Hello,
I would like to know which fingering style is often the best for medieval/tavern like sound, I often see some have traditional bagpipe fingering and some have Recorder like fingering
Some also have one drone and some drone and tenor
Also if you know some good middle age/tavern like bagpipe model I’m interested
What did you suggest for this style ?
Have a nice day
Hummelchens need recorder-style fingering (or you could call it whistle or flute fingering). If you cover the bottom holes (as in GHB), the sound is totally messed up. I do seem to use the right-hand pinkie finger a lot more than I do with GHBs or smallpipes…
Yes it seems like a lot of the Renaissance and Mediaeval bagpipes are aimed at people who are already familiar with instruments like recorders, shawms, and crumhorns.
One feature I see on many of those bagpipes is having the chanter designed to play in two keys, a Major scale based on the 7-finger note and a minor scale based on the 6-finger note, say playing in G Major and A minor.
These bagpipes often have a single drone that can be adjusted to play either note, say A or G.
Here’s one on Ebay Early Music Shop Medieval Bagpipes in G by Robert Thomas | eBay
Here’s a link to Julian Goodacre talking about fingering styles for his Leicestershire small pipes, and why he recommends a “closed fingering”. His Leicestershire pipes have a Renaissance or Medieval look and feel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpS5ChSuc2g
Although he states that he has closed his order book for many of his styles of pipes, he says, he is still making the Leicestershire small pipes.
When I had my Renaissance small pipes made by a different pipe maker, I went with the whistle fingering and kinda regret having done so now.
Jon Swayne makes a cool looking Medieval pipe, but he uses the same finger as his border pipe fingering , which is half-closed. https://www.jonswayne.com/bagpipes. On my pastoral pipes, the fingering is half-closed also, and it wasn’t hard to adapt to that fingering coming from a flute.
I’ve seen quite a few people in Renaissance ensembles play ordinary surviving bagpipe species such as the Spanish Gaita Galega and especially the Central French/Limousine pipes (and the very similar Low Countries pipes).
I think there are multiple reasons, for one these are currently played in surviving thriving traditions so high-functioning instruments and established reedmaking and playing traditions exist. On the other had with re-imagined/re-created instruments the makers are sort of flying by the seat of their pants and making everything up as they go along.
The keys these pipes play in are pretty ensemble-friendly, with the Gaita Galega normally being in C and the Central French pipes commonly being in G, with many tunes based on the 4th, C.
Both pipes are capable of going up into the 2nd octave, and both use fingerings pretty similar to Recorder etc with a partial or full chromatic scale available.
Personally the Gaita Galega is a bit too strident. The Central French pipes (and very similar Low Countries pipes) are lower, more mellow, and IMHO more ensemble-friendly.
Here, you can see the open fingering system of the Central French pipes
I ve been playing "medieval " bagpipes for more than 30 years now.
The loud “eastgothic” pipes with big bells had been invented in East Germany.They normally have an complete open fingering system. The range is normally 9 tones, with very few extra chromatic notes. Drone sound is strong
They had no access to western European traditional bagpipes (mainly French cornemuse du centre), which influenced west German makers during the 70/80th folk revival .
These are not as extreme loud ,have a half closed fingering system with a left hand thumbhole, offering more chromatic notes and a half second octave.
The drones are often not very loud, because in the traditional French setting the hurdy gurdy delivers that
The Huemmelchen has a cylindrical bore, therefore there’s no second octave.
It s not very loud, depending on the constructional details.
Often baroque recoder fingering is applied for more chromatic notes.
This requires rather smaller finger holes, which results in a quieter sound.
What is helpfull for both French cornemuses and baroque fingering huemmelchens is the option for having several scales to the same drone and fundamental, playing both major and minor scales without retuning the drone.
Galician gaita offers that too but you only have a major 7th in minor below the fundamental when playing that way, in minor as well.
Gaita fingering is open fingering but quite chromatic.
You can step up one note (using D as fundamental on a C gaita, pinkie and ring finger opened)
Gaita drones normally have no extra hole for the D
C gaitas normally offer a bit of a second octave
But they are high pitched anyway and often felt too annoying for longer indoor use
There are lower tuned gaitas down to G (I like the sound more than the French), but depending on the makers construction there are only some with some extra second octave notes)
Thank you, everyone for your answers.
If I would like something not too loud to be played inside, what type of bagpipe would you recommend to me for a medieval vibe? Because there are so many types from many countries
For example, as someone said, the gaita gallega seems not very good for a long play, especially inside with a high-pitched sound it is not the atmosphere I’m trying to create.
For my way of thinking it’s hard to beat the Central French (and Low Countries) style of chanter in G.
It’s not too loud nor too soft. It’s not too low-pitched nor too high-pitched.
It has the classic conical-bore bagpipe sound (rather than the cylindrical-bore smallpipe sound) yet it’s not too strident.
It’s partly or fully chromatic and goes a few notes into the 2nd octave giving tremendous musical flexibility. Players tend to use expressive devices such as finger vibrato and note-bending.
It’s at home in the keys of G and C which are generally ensemble-friendly.
It can be mouth-blown or bellows-blown. It can have a long Bass drone on the shoulder or not according to preference.
I’m singing this instrument’s praises as an outsider: I’ve never owned one.
A somewhat jealous outsider because it does a number of things better than the instruments I do play, the Scottish Highland pipes, uilleann pipes, and Scottish smallpipes. Ditto some instruments I used to play, the Gaita Galega and the Bulgarian gaida.
The most ensemble-friendly of these is the uilleann chanter, though you’re stuck sitting down.
Seems to me that another musically useful instrument would be a keyed Northumbrian smallpipe chanter. I used to have a low-pitched NSP in “D” which sounded beautiful.
That does sound very interesting and I like your rationale! How would you say these pipes relate to, for example, the English border pipes that John Swayne makes? I’ve long been tempted by a set of those, but fortunately, so far, common sense has prevailed and helped me concentrate my efforts on the (too-long list) of instruments I’m currently attempting to play. But hopefully, there is no harm in learning more about them at least!
John Swayne English Border Pipes
Note that if you scroll down the page on John Swayne’s site he makes a set of pipes that he calls Medieval Pipes, and which are acoustically similar to his English Border pipes, but externally given a Medieval aesthetic styling, which may be of interest to the OP. Edit: Just saw that Tjones already mentioned this earlier.
I chatted with Jon Swayne a number of years ago, and he said that his “Border” pipes have a “Continental” style chanter, that is, the bore/reed/acoustics/fingering of Central French (and Low Countries) pipes.
As he says on his site:
“As the result of the wish to make a more modern British instrument, and in answer to the need for a bagpipe with the flexibility to play a wider range of repertoire, in 1986 I introduced an English border-style bagpipe in G, which formed the foundation for the range of border pipes described on the Bagpipes page.”
I’m assuming that chanter design was in G due to that being the key of the most commonly-played Central French pipes.
His “Lowland” chanter on the other hand is designed to use modern Scottish Highland pipe fingerings, with the addition of being capable of doing all the chromatic fingerings, and in the key of A, in other words like the modern revival Scottish so-called “Border” pipes.
The “Continental” and modern Scottish “Border” fingering systems are alike in some ways, different in some ways. I think the notes most affected are the 5th and the 7th.
Personally I think Jon Swayne’s “student pipes” in G are beautiful, and due to that, and price, would be what I would get if I was interested in going down the Continental route.
I purchased a “Lowland” chanter from him because I wanted the Scottish Highland fingerings and the key of A in A=440. The chanter came with a plastic reed of Jon’s design which worked perfectly and stayed in tune regardless of the weather. His workmanship is top-drawer.
Here’s him playing his “English border pipes” in Low D, how beautiful they are.
Here’s him playing the style of chanter I got, his “Lowland” chanter which uses Scottish Highland pipe fingerings, and is in A.
Thanks for elaborating on the relationship! That is fascinating. And those pipes sounds fantastic … both sets!
As for Swayne’s English border pipes in D, you now have me wondering how they relate to his (and other’s) pastoral pipes? I wonder if he uses the same chanter profile for both? If so, I wonder if they have a full 2 octave range (or more) of notes?
And if this is the case, it makes me wonder how the conical bore profile of these English border pipes and their related Central French and low countries pipes relates to that of original pastoral pipe chanters and to uilleann pipe chanters. As I understand it, all have a conical bore profile, which gives them an extended range compared to something like a cylindrical bore Scottish small pipe. But Scottish border pipes, which also have a conical bore, don’t usually claim a 2 octave range. Or do they? And he doesn’t claim a full 2 octaves for the higher pitched English border pipes, does he?
Do you think it becomes easier to extend the range of notes as the key of the chanter lowers and the bore gets longer and aspect ratio higher?
And a related question. People often comment about Scottish border pipes being less stable and more finicky than smallpipes, because of their conical bore. But are they any less stable or more finicky than uilleann pipes, which also have a conical bore? And is the bore aspect ratio more like a narrow bore (flat set) uilleann chanter, or more like a modern wide bore chanter? Are they typically more finicky because they are higher pitched? Are they louder because they are relatively wider bored?
Sorry if this is taking the thread too far off track. And thanks for sharing any thoughts you have!
The finickiness AKA instability of the Scottish neo-“Border” chanter vis-a-vis the uilleann chanter, older Great Highland chanters, new Great Highland chanters, and cylindrical Smallpipe chanters is a very interesting thing.
I started this thread on that topic a while back
Ideal stability versus ideal instability - Bagpipes (Non-Uilleann) - Chiff & Fipple
I managed to find an answer to this question by looking at the fingering charts on John Swayne’s website. The two chanters are clearly different as they have different fingering and range of notes.
I really like the sound (and look/configuration) of his D border pipes, and found a couple of nice videos of them in action. You can clearly see the lower hand thumb hole being used in this first video.