English Traditional Music

http://lester.bailey.googlepages.com

Well. An observation or two. I live in South wales, to set the scene (as it were)

I went down into Somerset and Dorset over Easter, took me pipes and whistles, and looked for a session. I was hoping to find a session where predominantly English music was played - sometimes I get to play Welsh music at sessions here around Swansea, and there are sessions in South Wales where ITM (probably more than WTM) is the mainstay. Also there are ‘Acoustic Nights’, of which more later.

I was rather disappointed not to find one ‘session’ per se, although we did locate one ‘Singers Night’ and one ‘Acoustic Night’. I played a bit of whistle at the Singers night - they were very welcoming and friendly, fair play, and even sang a couple of Welsh songs which are evidently part of their normal repertoire. At the Acoustic night, I played a couple of tunes on pipes and whistle. However most of that night was composed of Singers/guitarists, and most the the songs they sang were American/Americanish covers, with some Christie Moore thrown in.

ONE woman there played some stuff from Playford on a concertina, which was great, and one bloke sang some traditional English songs. Ok, they never claimed to be a session, but it was disappointing - to me - that there was so little ‘English’ material. Incidentally, we went to Dorchester and I looked for maybe a book of Thomas Hardy-ish fiddle tunes or West Gallery music, or a CD of similar - couldn’t find any. I was really craving some English trad… I think there are sessions down there, but I also gather that some are specifically or predominantly Irish although others claim to have a lot of ETM going on. Maybe my timing was wrong?

A lot of the ‘Acoustic Nights’ in this neck of the woods are mainly guitarist/singers dominated too, with the same sort of American or Americanised repertoire and some Irish stuff. I was at one last week, played a couple of what in theory are very well-known Welsh tunes last week and lots of the musicians had never heard of them.

It seems to me that there is often an association where Traditional Music = Irish Traditional Music, even in Wales or England. Therefore music which can sound rather different - like Welsh or English - can ironically sound unfamiliar to ears attuned to ITM, even to Welsh or English ears.

Not sure what the point of this post is. Perhaps, it’d be good to hear more WTM in Wales, and ETM in England. Not sure that there are many Welsh sessions out in Arkansas or ETM ones in Clare. This isn’t to say that ITM shouldn’t be played, of course - but if we don’t play WTM in Wales or ETM in England, where will they be played? To me, an awareness of the tunes of a specific part of the world amongst musicians in that part of the world is a positive thing. If I go to an area or country, I like to get a flavour of the place. That flavour includes the music. And the beer, of course.

Discuss :smiley:

Incidentally, you might want to check out the Old Swan Band. Bit of whistle with them, and a bit of swing!

Cheers, Geraint. Glad someone else has some similar feelings to me on this/got the drift of my rant above. I used to live in Cardiff, BTW, and first got some involvement with WTM there, as well as ITM and trad stuff in general. I was brought up in the West Country of England (Dorset, Devon, Cornwall - the only one of the 4 counties I never lived in was Somerset, but I likes me zider! :smiley: ), and apart from dancing the Flurry Dance through the streets of St Agnes in Cornwall (it is not solely a Helston tradition) as an 8 year old in the 1960s, encountered very little live or really indigenous trad music. It was only when I went to Uni in Cardiff that I began to come across very much. Even now I think in Devon and Cornwall (and West and Mid Wales) it is mostly tied up with post revival, post hippy, middle class trendy or drop out types - the weirdy beardies, yoga and reiki ginseng tea drinkers, magic mushroom munching djembe bashers and tree huggers (not casting aspersions :sunglasses: , just trading on stereotypes for shorthand). Of course, if no-one revives it, it dies entirely, but it ain’t the same as a strong continuous tradition. Is it “Folk” music when the tradition is carried on by arty middle class incomers because the indigenous folk aren’t interested? (Guilty - unabashedly - I ENJOY it!) Similar argument applies to the Cecil Sharps, Peter Bellamys etc. - C18th, C19th & 20th collectors who “saved” much of the material in at least a quasi-academic research fashion.

Anyway, I get plenty of WTM by shuttling around N Wales these days - Bangor, Dolgellau… and my main local session, whilst predominantly ITM, is by no means exclusively so and we often play a few Welsh, English, Breton, French, Scots etc. tunes. It is also fairly definitely an instrumental session, thought he occasional song is always welcome. I know exactly what you mean about those “acoustic” and “open mic” mights - sure, some of the performers may well be very good within their own fields/genres, but it is almost exclusively singer/songwriter + guitar, navel gazing and fluff-pulling sub-folk/soft pop, and/or unashamed covers of pop like Oasis - a favourite 3 student flatshare (bad) unison singing 3 chord guitar thrash source of material! I rarely go to such things anymore. When the wave of them started about 10 years ago I thought it was going to be a kind of replacement for the diminished Folk Club scene, which I suppose partly it was, and tried to support my local one, but as you say, there was no recognition or even awareness of trad instrumental music among most of the attendees, nor much appreciation - they just don’t know how to listen if it hasn’t got words! (A point I think reflected by the current tendency, especially among Americans, to use “song” when referring to anything that may still be called by others a “track” or a “number”… or in our case, to be accurate, a “tune”!) In folk Clubs of the 70s-80s, even if it was predominantly a singer-songwriter orientated one, they at least understood when someone got up and played a set of tunes!

The Barnes Book of English Country Dance tunes is a great tune source. In the U.S. anyone who plays for English Country Dances has it and uses it. One source for this book is http://www.cdss.org . The Village Music Project http://www.village-music-project.org.uk/ has transcribed into ABC notation tunes from numerous English tune manuscripts.

Chris Bartram wrote an extremely informative article about Southern English Fiddling. A version of it was in “Fiddler Magazine.” You can probably get the back issue from them. He used to have it on his website. It appears he’s removed all music from his site http://www.christopherbartramrfdesign.com/ but perhaps if you emailed him he would send it to you.

While none of this is specific to the whistle, it’s all relevant.

The Barnes Book of English Country Dance tunes is a great tune source. In the U.S. anyone who plays for English Country Dances has it and uses it. One source for this book is http://www.cdss.org . The Village Music Project http://www.village-music-project.org.uk/ has transcribed into ABC notation tunes from numerous English tune manuscripts.

Chris Bartram wrote an extremely informative article about Southern English Fiddling. A version of it was in “Fiddler Magazine.” You can probably get the back issue from them. He used to have it on his website. It appears he’s removed all music from his site http://www.christopherbartramrfdesign.com/ but perhaps if you emailed him he would send it to you.

While none of this is specific to the whistle, it’s all relevant.

I find that there are a lot of bands playing extremely good English dance music - you only have to go the festivals to hear them (and dance to them) - but playing those same tunes as a set at a session is much less usual. Any English folk dance band will be using all the aforementioned source books, and the dancers will know those tunes and the related dances. It is playing the music away from the dance floor that seems less common. However, I have certainly been to impromptu sessions at festivals like the Sidmouth festival where English music of a very high standard has been played - and appreciated by the audience.

Dunno about the sources/books, but I agree entirely with the rest of what you say.

There are English sessions, but we should remember that it is not a traditional part of the musical culture, even in and around the long standing, continuous tradition Morris sides, to have what we now recognise as sessions. Sessions a such don’t even have a long pedigree in ITM, as has frequently been discussed. It is one of the delights and attractions of the ITM scene, resulting from the Irish diaspora plus the modern appeal of ITM, that one can often find a session wherever one travels. Other traditions are way behind in that regard, though a WTM session scene is gradually developing.