Embouchure question...

A friend of mine introduced me to this technique just last night. I had gotten into the habit of stretching my lower lips over the lower teeth, and sticking out the jaw. I was getting relatively small apertures but the tone was very inconsistent. I was also playing very sharp, tonally.

With the “canopy” technique, all of the benefits listed by Nano seem within reach. I had to be shown the technique rather than read about it, but so far, it is a huge improvement. Getting this one consistent will, I suppose, take another year of practice :wink:

This is one of the suggestions that also seems to work nicely for me. I do have difficulty maintaining it accross both octaves and there’s obviously more to it, but that got me started in the right direction it seems.

Using Nanohedron’s technique made it more obvious to me how important it is to change the direction of the airstream to get different note (and to change the velocity of the airstream too). You will likely find that if you really have the impression of blowing down into the embouchure from the “canopy” to get lower notes, then to get higher ones you have to blow less down (which for me happens when I advance my lower jaw while keeping the upper lip in the same place). The exercise mentioned many times previously here, in which one plays a low note, then the octave, then an octave plus a fifth, then two octave (overtones) only by changing the direction and velocity of the airstream really is a good help to get the idea. For me, increasing velocity correlates with greater tension in my abdominal muscles -it doesn’t need more breath or “harder blowing”.

Hugh

Well, I think my embouchure is well developed, basically
I’ve been playing hours every day for three years,
including some high flutes, demanding flutes, overtones,
etc. Of course you’re right: one can’t play well or consistently without
development, but I don’t think it’s sufficient. So for the
Bryne Rudall, you have to roll the flute out and focus
in a certain way to get the low D. And others I know
who have played for many years have struggled with
Rudall bottoms, in fact, not because their embouchure
isn’t sufficiently developed but because a special
technique is involved.

Flutefry, it was John Williams who recommended the technique to me. It’s been a matter of changing old habits that die hard, and I don’t have the new approach down to its ideal, but I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of what I’ve learned so far. I came to realise that Larry Nugent uses a variant of it (we all have physical differences to address, so we all have quirks), and I seem to recall a pic of Packie Duignan with the same species of embouchure. He had great tone! I’ve seen plenty of other pix of trad fluteplayers with such similarly described embouchure formations; some of them look like they’re doing nothing special at all. That’s the “holy grail”, for me: no obvious efforts or contortions.

I don’t think it’s the only way to go, but hey, there seems to be a good reason it’s recommended.

Jim, I find myself agreeing with you and not agreeing with you. Development -at whatever stage- to me means it dictates special technique, whatever approach you’re habituated to. Here’s what I’m getting at: take the bottom D on my “Rudall” flute. Until recently I found it effortful, and had to really lay into it and tauten the corners of my mouth. That was my special technique, and it was tiring to the facial muscles. The low C#/Cnat functions were spotty at best, a despair for me. Now, with my latest changes (a term I prefer to “development” as I think it’s semantically clearer), bottom D is strong, fat and broad, and all I have to do is relax! Being counterintuitive given my past experiences, that is a “special technique” to me. I’m not nitpicking, here. It’s how I see the matter. If I want the bottom D to “narrow”, harden and get reedy, I just have to use more ab support, maybe cover the embouchure hole more. Not much more than that, really. And the low C#/Cnat are very strong, now. Development? Changes? Special technique? It’s just plain technique to me, is all.

As I only started playing days ago, I definitely don’t know what to expect from my instrument (Hammy Practice Flute), and obviously every instrument is different. I do find the Low D quite easy to get on the practice flute though, I can even get it up to the 1st octave, 1st +5th and next two octaves (tx to all the good advice I received in this thread), which I can’t get yet on the other notes (can only get to the 1st + 5th octave). I find the Low A by far the most difficult actually on that particular flute. Being a non-conical bore I am certain this has a significant effect, so it is hard for me to know what to expect on such an inexpensive instrument.

Nanohedron, I must say I really like Larry Nugent’s tone. That’s what I am aiming for in my head. I also like the way this embouchure can give a very reedy sound without the tight lips. I think it is supple as well, which is useful for intonation and playing quietly.

Hugh

Yeah, I like Nugent’s tone, too.

Whatever you do embouchure-wise, I think it’s also important to not constrict the throat, but let it have an expanded, open feeling that continues down to the bottom of the lungs. More resonance, that way.

wow, a grain of rice? paper thin hole?
so i’ve been playing incorrectly for 2 years?
I need to lie down. I may not recover from this.

In all fairness, I think it’s safe to say that in matters embouchurial (new word?) there’s more than one way to skin a cat. If it works, fine. New ideas needn’t be tossed aside peremptorily, though.

Sounds like the tai chi of blowing - minimal effort maximal effect. But, hey, I only just, not long ago, wiped out my Irish flute and packed it up for a days’ rest. Tomorrow is bamboo flute day. I will try this thing on Sunday. Thanks for the tip. I like a lot of your posts.

Why, thank you, Talasiga.

For the record, folks, I’m not getting it today…the new changes have fled me. Yesterday, no problem. I can tell I’m trying too hard. So it goes in the day of a fluter’s life. sigh

It’ll come back.

Let it be known that, henceforth, the above will be referred to as the

Nanopy Technique

Carry on.

:laughing:

Wormdiet, it’s not mine.

NOT.

MINE.

I am merely a vessel.



Let it be known that, henceforth, the above will be referred to as

The Good Ship Nanohedron

or maybe

The Nanohedron Bucket

Depending on your definition of “vessel” :laughing:

Vessel, as in receptacle for Guinness and Jameson. Sadly, the vessel has a leak and must be periodically refilled.

So…

Would you be so kind as to consider whether you keep the muscle at the opening in the lips relaxed and use the muscles just to the edge of the aperture to control the space?

…and while we’re at it…

Do you move your lips in and out or roll the flute to change pitch?

Sunday…innit?

Details of one’s optimum embouchure (whatever that is) are probably different for everyone in little ways. It’s hard to nail down specifics, so I have to report how it feels rather than what I think I’m actually doing. I expect, too, that things may well change over time as -Providence willing- efficiency increases. I hope other -particularly very experienced- players might want to weigh in. I’d appreciate that. It’d be interesting to hear a variety of takes on this subject.

What I feel -when things are clicking nicely- is a settledness, an anchoring at the corners of the mouth instead of a lot of effort and particular contortion; my lips at the opening feel very relaxed, uninvolved, almost, but there’s a firmness higher up closer to the nose. That seems to be my control central. I don’t have a sense of aperture control from the sides, although I can’t rule out that it’s happening; it’s certainly not a predominating feeling.

Rolling?? Lip adjustment for tone??? There’s always someone who’s gonna say I’m out of tune no matter what I do to accommodate someone else. Which. Suggests. I. May. Not. Actually. Be. The. Problem. Not that anyone’d think along those lines, no. It’s the fluteplayer’s cross to bear. sigh :wink:

But, yeah, I catch myself doing both. It’s not always intentional; sometimes it is.

The first is always a good point to make. No two mouth, lips, etc. are identical. The individual will have to deal with their own idiosyncrasies …

I think that there are two problems with nailing down specifics. The first is verbalizing the act in a manner that can be understood by others and the second being aware of what what you are doing with the embouchure to achieve the sound in the first place. (I’m going for the all inclusive use of the word embouchure here: lips, mouth, jaw, tongue, breath)

I don’t roll the flute intentionally. I will change the distance and angle of the air stream with lip position quite a bit.

I will have to get back to you on the “closer to the nose” thing as I don’t know that I have given much thought to that area.

Having originally taught myself flute in a vacuum, and only in the last few years found any discussion of the mechanics of the human side of the embouchure issue, I too would welcome any musings from any very experienced players.

The flute, oboe and saxophone are not overly in tune with themselves. So it goes. :wink: