Okay, I bought one tutorial and got another from the library. I was thinking of buying another tutorial since the one I bought originally was crap, but now I’m wondering.
See I already know how to read music, and I’ve figured out the fingering for all the notes (no thanks to the orig. tutorial which wrote everything in tabs) and the only thing that’s really left in the books is about variations and things. To me it seems easier to play the songs straight and then add the rolls and cuts and whatever later. And since it’s all pretty independent playing, do I really need a book to tell me where I should roll?
I guess my actual question (took awhile getting here, huh?) is ‘Do I really need a book at all?’ What did all of y’uns do? Get a book or video, or just pick it up and start playing? Has anyone really felt that their tutorial made that much difference? If you didn’t already read music or had never played an instrument that required breath control, I can see how the books will help. But I know about reading music, I know about breath control. Does anyone feel that a book or video can really teach me any more? Or do you belive, as I’m starting to, that once you know the basics the rest is sort of trial and error. What roll sounds right here, or maybe here? I just don’t want to blow money on books that aren’t going to help me anymore when I could be blowing it on more whistles.
Don’t blow your money on tutorial books or whistles, spend it on CDs. Listen to the great players. Absorb. Absorb. Not just whistle players, either. Listen to fiddlers, pipers, concertinas, accordians, even banjo players. Absorb. Absorb.
Then you know the sound you are aiming for (hopefully). This is true whether you’re playing IT, Jazz, Blues, Bluegrass, Kwela, or Welsh.
I have a bookshelf full of tunebooks, just so I have the raw notes, but I still get the best results by listening first, and playing (or reading) later.
If you’d like to listen to some great players, plus have the notation handy to see where they’re putting in the rolls, visit BroSteve’s site and go to the transcriptions page. Invaluable.
I learned the basic mechanics of rolls and cuts, etc from a basic tutorial. I was, at the same time, listening to all the early Chieftains albums. The tutorial did suggest places to use the ornaments and I guess that helped get me started. Listening to the music showed me how it was supposed to sound. Now we have slow-downer software- now, that’s useful. (In total seriousness.)
Tony
I agree that listening is a powerful way of getting input.
For me, the tutorial was essential. I had a classical music background and knew all about trills and turns and grace notes. But couldn’t figure out how to make it sound like the traditional music I heard. Now, a year after my purchase of Grey Larsen’s books (honest, he doesn’t even know I’m out here and I’m not being paid to promote) I am finally getting to the point of sounding like a whistle player instead of the classical style musician I started out as.
You sound like you already know how to do the ornamentation. I’m sure your case is different than mine. Maybe this forum, and players in your area, are a source for information and inspiration. I’d really recommend a good tutorial for folks in my situation, isolated from other traditional musicians and having a limited musical background.
From reading your post, I’d say you do need a tutorial. Your comment, “the only thing that’s really left in the books is about variations and things. To me it seems easier to play the songs straight and then add the rolls and cuts and whatever later. And since it’s all pretty independent playing, do I really need a book to tell me where I should roll?”, is why I say this. Ornamentation isn’t thrown in wherever it pleases you, but where it pleases the tune. There is, believe it or not, some structure and rule to the music. The “variations and things” are basic, as well as rhythm and phrasing.
If you don’t want to spend the money on more books, that’s understandable, but don’t discount what they can offer. A teacher would be better, if available. Listening to CD’s is a great help as well. Although, if you don’t have the basics of ornamentation firmly in your mind, you won’t hear them in the music. Brother Steve’s page was mentioned as a learning aid. I second that advice, strongly.
Buying more whistles may be fun, but isn’t going to make you a better player (my controversial opinion). If you’re interested in gathering whistles, possibly use that as a reward system for steps in learning.
The ability to read music isn’t what this genre is about; the ability to listen is the heart of it.
Well, it’s not so much as I’m already a great player, but I have been listening to other cd’s and things. For me it’s easier to play from sheet music than by ear, but even if it’s written straight, once I’ve played it I think ‘Hmm, a roll would sound great there…’ or ‘If I scoop up to that note instead of hitting it head-on it sounds more traditional.’
I’m in to playing Celtic styles, I know that already. Thanks so much for the input so far. I guess I felt I needed validation for not using a tutorial and I don’t want to undermine myself by not doing it right. I need to learn there’s no right way, I suppose. Just whatever way I choose. Which means, of course, that everyone will have to do it my way from now on. In the world.
There’s the bottom line, then. If you want to play “celtic style” music, then you’re correct - no right way, no rules, no standards. You can interpret how you like and nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, if you want to play traditional music, there is a right way.
Okay, so I didn’t phrase it right, but that’s basically what I’m saying. And do I really need a book to tell me that? Really, I’m asking. I mean I’ve said previously that I play better from sheet music than by ear, but forgot to mention that I do usually listen to a song first and then find the music for it. And I wouldn’t throw in an ornamentation just to have an ornamentaion, but because it sounds like it’s supposed to be there. I don’t have fancy words for it, but I guess that’s pretty much what you’re saying, and I agree.
So, what tutorials would you recommend? Any in particular, or by a certain author?
I find books like 121 Favorite Irish Session Tunes by L.E. McCullough very useful for me. I learned a bunch of tunes that I should know but didn’t know. It is qute concise with just the melody line and some chords. No ornaments. But the recording has ornaments. There is a slow version and faster version. Each version is only played one time. Not something to sit back an listen to for a long song, but great for learning a lot of tunes.
So I say, get a book like this and CD’s. The tutors start getting repetative (especially the beginning tutors). An advanced tutor might me another story!
Hmmm, get yourself a recording device and record yourself playing the whistle and THEN ask yourself if you need instruction. You probably do need some kind of instruction if you are asking in the first place. Whether or not that instruction should come from a book is another question in itself. But I would say that just about anybody on this forum could use some instruction in one form or another.
For now, I’d go through Brother Steve’s page and his link to the transcriptions and commentary of players. After that, get a copy of Bill Ochs’ tutorial.
I’m sure you’re excited about playing, and you should be. It takes a couple years before your first light will go on. That’s pretty common. For the first two years you believe you have it figured out, then you smack yourself upside the head and progress in leaps in bounds. It happens again around the 5-year mark. Use your first years to build the foundation and yes, tutorials will tell you things you need to know. This music is much more complex than you can believe.
Um. Well, I don’t feel that I have everyting figured out, but I thought just practicing would get it going. I think from what Teri-K has said that I probably really do need a tutorial. Thanks much, Teri-K!
Does the L.E. McCullough session tunes book have any tips or is it just a book of tunes?
Haha! Well, he just makes a couple of suggestions. He says in general, use a short role on a quarter note and long role on the dotted quarter. That is about it! But the recording obviously has more than that. Like I said, it is a great book for learning a lot of tunes, but not much instruction. There is a small section on how to accompany players on guitar.
I’d throw in a couple of other hard-learned lessons- not necessarily the right way to go about things…
When I started, I threw in ornaments willy-nilly, which gave me a lot of finger practice, but I new there were good places to put them and places where they didn’t belong. The listening to recordings was what helped me there, but that was a very gradual dawning of understanding. I knew I was hearing something important (it was the phrasing, somewhat independent of the basic rhythm) but I couldn’t tease it out of the 1234 count. (I’ve never seen this important aspect addressed in any tutorial.)
I’ve said this before and it bears repeating: Learning how to play ornaments will teach you to hear/understand what you’re hearing from another player. Now, when I hear odd sounds that add to the tune, I can feel in my fingers what I’m hearing. Vice versa, listening will teach you to play the stuff, too.
I believe learning a lot of tunes teaches you things that you can apply to other tunes. I mean really drilling and learning the tunes, but not stopping at a few until you perfect them. You’ll end up latching onto a tune here and there that resonates with you and you’ll hear a good rhythm/phrasing that you can play with. (Experiment with.) It will help you start to hear the phrasing in other tunes to the point you can start applying it to your own playing. The phrasing is what dictates (suggests) where you ornament and breathe. (I don’t want you to think there’s only one way to play a tune; but, you need to find/create the internal symmetry.)
Practice playing slowly. Don’t make speed a goal. I sense that some people reach for speed too early and skip over a lot of the nuances that make the tunes magical. You can get away with playing straight 1234 or 123, emphasis on every 1 beat in a session, but if you try solo, the lack of seasoning in the soup will be more obvious.
Tony
Where are you in Ohio? There are some very rich pockets of Irish music playing spread about down there. And exposure to people who know what they are doing is better than tutorials or recordings. (Though all three together is probably best.)
Does the L.E. McCullough session tunes book have any tips or is it just a book of tunes?
He doesn’t really have any tips, but he does frequently play the tune through different ways each time, which can be handy for picking up variations and ornaments.
Well.
I live in Dalton, which is near Massillon, which is near Canton, which is near Akron, which is not too far from Cleveland when you get right down to it. I don’t know of any groups near me, so if anyone else does, I’d be glad of the info!
I don’t have much in the way of first hand info, but I believe there’s an Irish music session at Wooster. (My wife got her BA at the college there.) I don’t know if there are any whistlers around, but it would definitely be worth checking out.
