Sometimes I can play it nearly precise but for that I have to vary a lot with my breath.
I filled allready the space below the airway with poster putty, but that didn’t change the tuning at all. And opposite to what is said mostly about that kind of tweaking, the low d sounds for me rather muffled and now that the poster putty is in, I have doubts to get it out again.
But the main problem are the f# and c#. Because of that I think about widening the holes and I hope to find here somebody experienced in this. So I have some questions about that:
Should the holes be widened all around or is it sufficient to just widen the upper part of the hole.
How will this affect other notes like the c and d (in case of widening the c#).
the tuning is not equal tempered (ET), but a just intonation. F# and C# should be flat compared to an ET tuning. It makes the whistle sound sweeter. The C# tuning is also even a bit more flat, so that the cross fingered C natural is in tune. Try to live with the whistle and just use your ears to get the notes right. Don’t play into a tuner!
While the putty tweak does seem to improve some types of whistles, it had the opposite effect on the 2 Trads I’ve had. And if you search and can find the original massive thread about the Trad, I believe that was also the experience of a couple of others.
To put specific numbers to what Hans is saying, here’s the “Five-Limit Just Intonation” scale for D
D 0
E +4
F# -14
G -2
A +2
B -14
C +18
C# -12
Highland pipes are tuned to this exact scale save for the minor 7th which is tuned to the 7th harmonic of the Harmonic Series (the “harmonic minor 7th”) at -31.
When I get whistles tuned “just” I carve out the F# and B to bring the scale into line with Equal Temperament. I usually leave C# alone because I prefer it a bit flat so that crossfingered C
What Hans said. Inherent compromises in the design/tuning of all whistles make it pretty well impossible to build one that’s ‘in’ with absolutely constant breath pressure, but the Dixon Trad is as well-tuned as any comparable model.
Hi Klaus, I’m a bit surprised by your post, as my Trad is one of my most in-tune whistles. When playing and listening, I cannot hear a note that sounds obviously out of tune with the others. Playing in front of a tuner shows some variations, but as others have stated, whistles have not been created for an audience made of electronic tuners.
I usually tune my whistles on a G (or A) note rather than bottom D . My Dixon then goes :
D -5 %, E ok, F# -5%, G ok, A -5%, , B ok, C# - 20 %, d ok, e ok, f# -10%, g - 5%, a ok, b - 10 %, c# - 20 %, d - 20%.
I consider a variation of +/- 5 % non significant, and a variation of +/- 10 % still acceptable. So only both C# are actually flat. A whistle maker once told me that it was almost impossible to have both C# and cross fingered C accurate, so a maker has too chose. And in fact, the natural C on my dixon trad is ok.
Keep in mind that in sessions one often tends to overblow, especially on the second octave. So if you tune your whistle at home, you might find yourself a bit too sharp when playing with others. Also, a low note that’s not right in tune won’t hurt your ears, whereas a flat high a or b will stand out and make all the other musicians stare at you with criminal intentions. If there’s a choice to be done, better be ok on these high notes.
So, maybe you just should learn to live with the imperfections of your Dixon trad, which is certainly one of the less imperfect cheap whistles ever made.
is pretty darn close! If it were my whistle I’d carve out Hole 3 a bit to raise A to zed/zero and just remember to give a bit of a ‘push’ on Bottom D (which is common in Irish music anyhow).
Having F# a bit low is fine in Irish music and will make your whistle more in tune with fiddlers and pipers.
Remember if you’re playing with fiddlers that D, A, and e are open strings so you want those notes perfect.
If playing with pipers D and A will be the same as the fiddle but e will usually be a bit low (and E a bit high… the tuning conundrum of the pipes!)
Keep in mind that being “in tune” is situational. The pipes will usually be tuned more or less to Just Intonation. Playing in Equal Temperament along with a piper will result in several small tuning issues.
On the other hand if you’re playing with a guitar then Equal Temperament is the way to go.
Both systems are in reality rather close and with your breath you can adjust to match whomever you’re playing with. The main thing is having F# a tad flat to blend better with Just Intonation players.
I have all my various whistles tuned exactly to Equal Temperament due to the sorts of gigs I often do. I can play the same whistles with trad players and blend just fine too.
It’s certainly a well - in - tune whistle, and very sweet sounding too. I just wish it was a bit louder and the bottom D was stronger. For something like 20 $, it’s hard to beat .
Just found my Dixon Trads to check them. Funny how whistles seem to wander around the house on their own.
Yep, mine are well in tune, and I haven’t heard of a systematic tuning problem with the Trads.
An electronic tuner is handy for setting your reference pitch - A or G or whatever you tune to. After that, as Hans said, better to toss the tuner and use your ear. And if the OP Klaus is unfamiliar with Just Intonation, the Trad is a chance to learn, hands on, before hacking up the holes.
Really a good scale, generally, for traditional music, say playing along with uilleann pipers.
Were it my whistle I could carve out holes 1, 2, 4, and 5 (holes are counted from the top) in other words raise the C’s, B, G, and F# until crossfingered C natural, B, G, and F# were in line to Equal Temperament, because I’m an Equal Temperament guy. Open C# is nearly always going to be a hair flat and you get used to giving it a little boost.
But as it stands that whistle would be fine for Irish sessions and playing in traditional situations with fiddlers and pipers and fluters.
Seems like the octaves are good. You just need to give a bit more support as you get higher.
I don’t play the whistle very often, or to be true, rather seldom.
In the past I played all kind of flutes, whistles, recorders but I had a
25 years break and since 5 years I play it once in a while. Now I mostly
play guitar, sing and some percussions.
I don’t play much traditional music.
And I play with a guitar player and the guitar is of course ET.
If I would play it often, it would be worth to go into it and learn to play with that “just tuning”, but in my situation an ET is better. It is just so, that I came across a song and I thought “Oh a tin whistle will sound great with it”. And then the trouble startet . I could play it with a recorder, but this is only half of what I want. So I try to get the Trad a bit closer to ET.
and now that the poster putty is in, I have doubts to get it out again.
. I could play it with a recorder, but this is only half of what I want. So I try to get the Trad a bit closer to ET.