Can anyone point me to a diagram of a keyed chanter. I want to see the various ways in which Keys can be arranged.
Alternatively, some advice - the G# key is normally played by which finger - baby finger of right hand or left thumb??
I’m not sure what key arrangement you are looking at. My G# comes down the right-hand side, and is intended to be played with the right (lower) -hand thumb. I find it easier to play with the ball of my first finger on the right hand.
djm
Yeah. I got it arseways in my first message. It should have read “the little finger of the left hand or the right thumb”. From what I gather, the right thumb plays the Bb, Cnat and G# while the left pinky plays the Fnat. Am I correct?
No. Every maker does it differently.
On my Wooff’s:
The G# is played by straightening the index finger of the bottom hand. The key being short and on the righthand side of the chanter.
The Bb is played by reaching around the chanter with the index finger of the bottom hand. The key being short there also but on the lefthand side of the chanter.
Photo: http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos/my_wooffs/pdarcy_wooff_3.jpg
On the K&Q’s:
The G# is played by the thumb of the bottom hand. The key touch is just below where the thumg rests on the back of the chanter.
The Bb is played by the thumb of the bottom hand. The key touch is just above where the thumg rests on the back of the chanter and is in the convenient position to allow a cut with the Cnat key onto the Bb… schweet!
Photo: http://www.uilleannobsession.com/photos/koehler&quinn/sistersofmercy/f6bcbfea.jpg.orig.jpg
That’s enough talk about key placement for one lifetime!
Now go and get drunk… it’s Friday for Jayzuz sake!
PD.
There is more than one possible key arrangement, so I wouldn’t want to mislead you. On my 4-key D chanter, the left (upper) hand pinky plays the Bb and Fnat keys. The right (lower) hand thumb plays the G# and Cnat.
On my 7-key Bnat chanter, the keys are arranged differently, e.g. instead of a long Fnat key on the left side of the chanter, there is a short ring-like key just above the E on the front. This is played with the right ring (third) finger (all notes equiv to D chanter for sake of clarity). From bottom to top, there is
an Eb key for the 3rd 8ve played at the back with the thumb,
an Fnat ring key as previously described,
a G# at the back played with the right thumb,
a Cnat at the back played with the right thumb,
a 3rd 8ve D at the front (also for C#) played with the right index finger,
a Bb on the left side played with the left pinky, and
an E for 3rd 8ve at the front played with the left index finger.
There is a diagram in Denis Brook’s tutor of common chanter keys.
No, I don’t hardly use the half of them. I suspect the four keys I have on my 4-key D chanter (i.e. Fnat, G#, A#, Cnat) are all most people would ever need.
djm
I have been thinking I’d be happier without the keys…
Now, bear in mind the following comments are from a GHB piper who never used keys and has only started UPs these 3 months…
Regarding keys, I think
-
the chanter seems more susceptible to damage with keys (bump a brass key sideways and a piece of chanter mounting it chips off);
-
the keys don’t always close reliably (my C-nat key does not shut well and leaks);
-
it sounds to me like one can “cross-finger” any of those notes anyway. For example, I find “cross-fingering” C-nat feels ‘natural’ and is less cumbersome that hitting that key with my thumb and more in tune with the rest of my chanter.
Of course, I might change my mind after I learn to use the keys. 
Dave Jones
Dave, there is no cross fingering for Cnat in the 2nd 8ve. A recent thread pointed out that Paddy Keenan is using the Cnat key in the 1st 8ve to attain the speed he gets in his triplets. As for the other accidentals, I don’t know of cross fingerings except for half-holing, which for me is pretty hit-or-miss at speed. Many people are satisfied with just the Cnat and the Fnat keys. As you point out, its more a matter of personal preference based on experience, and yes, you’re allowed to change your mind later.
djm
Point well taken. I will need to learn them, then. This thread is great b/c I am getting an idea as to exactly how I can reach these notes.
I am moving on to vol 3 in the NPU video - I wonder if they give some key instruction there?
Dave Jones
I’d love to see a picture of a 7-key Bnat chanter. Can you post something?
Also, you’re reaching the 3rd octave with some of these keys - how many/what major keys can you play with that Bnat chanter?
Finally, on your D chanter, how often do you use the Bb/A# key? I heard that it’s rarely needed.
Ye can get C in 2nd 8ve…Hit High C# then raise 3rd finger of bottom hand(ring finger) whilst closing C#.It will depend on your chanter but will sort the wheat frae the Chaff 
I usually pinch the G’ to get to A’, B, or C#. Then having to do as you describe to get the Cnat seems to take a bit of time. Can it be played quickly?
Uilliam, I don’t disagree that there may be different fingerings for different chanters. However, since chanter keys are quite available, I see no benefit in not using them. They are easier to apply at speed than cross fingerings, and more accurate. I’m not sure if you are against having keys on the chanter, or are just trying to be thorough regarding all possible fingerings.
PJ, re. pic, I will try to post something on my site. What do you mean by “major keys” - do you mean musical scale keys, or physical note keys? Physical keys are C#‘’/D’‘’, Eb’‘’, E’‘’. I have not found a use for these yet. I got these on the assumption that, since previous masters of the UPs saw fit to have them, I would some day be able to understand what they had tried to attain to and be able to use them myself (not there yet by a long shot 
).
On the D chanter, the only keys I have found a use for so far are Fnat, G#, and Cnat. The A# key is there “just in case”. It was the only other key I could think of at the time for a note not easily obtained through regular fingering.
djm
It certainly will , give some people enough rope and they,ll surely hang themselves
RORY
[quote=“djm”]Uilliam, I don’t disagree that there may be different fingerings for different chanters.
Yes ye do 
ye just said so
Dave, there is no cross fingering for Cnat in the 2nd 8ve.
your words not mine
I’m not sure if you are against having keys on the chanter, or are just trying to be thorough regarding all possible fingerings.
Neither..ye just quoted above a fact which wasnae a fact at all.Now your trying to wriggle out o it by implying that somehow I’m at fault for correcting a piece o nonesense
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Why not?
When I tried the cross fingering you suggested for Cnat’’ I found it so ridiculously cumbersome as to not be a valid option at all. No doubt there are cross fingerings for other accidentals as well, but if they are not easily and quickly attainable to be musically useful, I’m afraid I don’t see them as valid options at all, merely as possibilities.
djm
DJM …How can ye make the above statement re.the 2nd octave after a couple o tries.???
No doubt when ye started to practice the C in the 1st Octave ye also found that “ridiculously cumbersome” as ye put it.But I presume ye mastered it with some practice.!!
Practice makes perfect ye know…so keep at it ye will get there or not as the case may be.
Remember it was yersel that made the original sweeping statement re the C in 2nd Octave.
PS ye don’t have to believe me,
Jim Daily demonstrated it to Tom Clarke at the Belfast Tional when he donated a practice set to the Belfast Pipers Club.It had no keys on it and Tom wondered ,much as ye did,about the C in 2nd 8ve.It worked fine and Tom had it after 2 goes, we both picked it up from there.
Slán Go Foill (not for long I suspect) 
Uilliam
I made the mistake of asking Jim D’s son if it were possible to add keys to the chanter and was told that keys were not necessary - cross-fingering can achieve all notes that keys usually give.
Ley me help you decide -
a) You’ll rarely need anything other than a Cnat and possibly Fnat. Yes, there are the odd one or two tunes that pipers quote as reason for getting other keys, but they are few and far between.
b) In the 12 yrs I’ve had my pipes (less the time spent in a practice-lull = about 5 years playing) I’ve never needed a Cnat key, nor do I have one (but I admit, my next chanter I will have it and and Fnat)
c) for the cost of adding the other keys to make up a 7 keyed chanter, you could save that money and just about buy another chanter in a different key - a higher priority in my opinion.
Cheers,
DavidG
That’s true when you stick to the typical repertoire of Irish jigs, reels, etc. However, some of us like to play around with the instrument and try it in different arrangements and with different styles of music. For instance, it makes a nice change to play something in G and then kick it up to A, for which a G# key is needed (P. Keenan’s version of Out on the Ocean for instance).