There seems to be lots of dance music being played and not much dancing, what gives?
The dancers and the musicians split long ago, especially the pipers, due to conflicts in priorities. You want to check for a local branch of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. They can put you in touch your nearest Irish dance groups/schools.
djm
Because a good bit of it is being played too bloody fast.
dave boling
Naaah… Dancers have just gotten fatter and lazier!

Where do you get 'em from Ben?
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i dont know so much i tried comhaltas to find out about irish dancing for my daughter & irish gatherings in plymouth devon without success, however we are now talking to people within the organisation about starting a comhaltas in plymouth, sad, population of 500,000 & nothing irish goin on, think i will jump of the bridge waaaaaaaaaaahhh ![]()
We are all familiar with the irish step dancing/competitions but I was thinking more of familial, casual and social dance; something most pipers depended on for subsistance. The music is here, Im surprised the reeling and jigging hasnt come back also. Any leads on how to dance one?
Best,
Brent
Piano and button AC players rule the American Irish Step Dance arenas. I don’t know a piper alive who could play feis all day long in varied hotel climes with all the noise of kids dancing.
I actually think that dancing has grown back closer to the music, at least in occasional sessions. it’s no longer a complete novelty for me to be in a session and for a dancer(s) to start up, be it sean nos or set or whatever.
regarding the issue of the music being too quick, i wouldn’t agree. most times i’m playing with dancers, they constantly want the music quicker and quicker.
shows like riverdance and its many copies placed a barrier between musicians and dancers ( consequently known as prancers ) and it’s only starting to become clear again that it’s the same tradition.
in places like connamara and traditional sean nos strongholds in the west of ireland, dancing is alive and well and goes hand in hand with music.
IMHO, as it ought to be.
The dancers will dictate the speed of the music.Thats normal.
As a guide the tempo is
Double Jigs 127
Single Jigs 137
Slip Jigs 144
Hornpipes 180
Reels 224
Source Breandan Breathnach Ceol Rince na hÉireann 1 page vii
He goes on to say…
To play the music at a quicker tempo detracts from the melody;to play it somewhat slower can do no harm.It was customary for many of the older musicians when playing for themselves to adopt a slower pace than that demanded by the dancers.
Tis pity these words o wisdom seem to be lost on some o the present generation of hooley bashers I hear at various sessions here in Scotland ![]()
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam
Actually, I was referring to the original CCÉ. It was supposed to represent and promote all aspects of the music and dance. The music part got left so far behind that the pipers were forced to head out on their own. Eventually they would form NPU to fill in the role that CCÉ was supposed to have filled.
djm
We are very lucky to have a strong and growing dance community around here. There are weekly social dance sessions as well as monthly ceilis. The music is kind of waning because too many have gone semi-pro, and the dancing is waxing. We have a problem of too many dancers and not enough musicians who are willing to play for them.
To get dancing going you have to have some good callers willing to teach and organize lessons and ceilis.
If yer willing to broaden horizons, contra dancing is alive and thriving in the USA. It’s very communal and not “professionalized” at all. Which is great. We have several Scots/Irish inspired contra bands (guffaw.) that perform locally down south. I’d bet a good piper could do wonders in this environment.
Actually DJM I am not so sure what ye are referring to?I teach at the Irish Minstrels Branch in Glasgow here is a quick resume of them + the part of the constitution which says what the aims of Comhaltas are
The first branch of Comhaltas to be formed outside of Ireland was in Glasgow, Scotland. The Irish Minstrels Branch was established in January 1957. The driving forces at that time were piper Pat McNulty, ballad singer Eoin Kelly and fiddle player, the late Jimmy McHugh.. There are now over 400 branches worldwide, promoting the music, song and dance of Ireland. The headquarters are based in Belgrave Square, Monkstown, Co. Dublin, Ireland. As a branch, we maintain an active part in our membership of Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann by following the aims of the organisation:
To promote Irish traditional music in all its forms.
To restore the playing of the harp and uilleann pipes.
To promote Irish traditional dancing.
To foster and promote the Irish language at all times.
To create a close bond among lovers of Irish music.
To co-operate with all bodies working for the restoration of Irish culture.
The original founding of Comhaltas was in my Grandfathers Home County of Westmeath in 1951,after an approach by the Pipers club in Dublin..(his Ceilidhe Band was heavily involved with Comhaltas in Moate Co Westmeath and today the town boasts Dún na Sí which is an excellent facility for dance and music and is heavily used..)I don’t know where ye get the idea that the music was left so far behind frae?It has not been my experience,quite the opposite in fact,it has gotten too far ahead in some cases.The Pipers always had their clubs in Dublin and in Cork and a little later in London.NPU was formed in 1968,not by being forced out on their own (where did that one come frae?)
The Aim of NPU is…
" By the 1960’s very few people in Ireland were playing the pipes and far fewer, perhaps only five, were engaged in the making of the instrument. It was a matter of grave concern that the art would decline further and so The Society of Uilleann Pipers known as Na Píobairí Uilleann (The Uilleann Pipers) was founded in 1968 at grassroots level by pipers themselves. The aims of the society are to perpetuate the spirit of the music, in particular the playing of the pipes and the production and maintenance of the instrument itself. To achieve these aims the single most important facet of the Society’s activities is the teaching of the uilleann pipes, especially to young people, as it is through this that the playing of the instrument will increase, prosper and develop. The degree to which the work of the Society has borne fruit is reflected in the number of pipemakers, many professional, now producing pipes - about forty throughout the world."
Far frae being exclusive of Comhaltas, NPU works closely with Comhaltas as a glance at their magazine Treoir will shew.There is not an issue without pipes/pipers being featured and the Echoes of Erin Annual Tour always has a Piper and Harpist in the line up.So facts please not fiction.. ![]()
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam
Yes, it’s nice to see that the tension between CCÉ and NPU has softened over the years.
Tension? No, no, there’s never been any tension. According to Uilliam its all sweetness and roses. CCÉ’s aims for promoting pipes and harp have always been so strong that there was never any real need to start NPU in the first place. Oh, those silly straying pipers. In fact, CCÉ’s efforts in the matter of pipes has now grown so strong that NPU should probably be disbanded all together. ![]()
djm
DJM it wasnae an attack on ye per se.So don’t take it to be.Please furnish your facts.Of course there has been tension as ye put it between individuals in the two organisations but they have been working toward the same goal over the years in their seperate ways mind ye.NPU specialised and Comhaltas generalised.To say that one neglected the other or that one organisation publicly chastised the other is just not true,unless of course ye know better ![]()
Uilliam
I am not aware of anybody foolish enough to publicly air the dirty laundry that has gone on between the two. I am not sure even of all the original players. I only know what people from Dublin have told me, stuff like how Ennis would have nothing to do with the people at the Piper’s Club, etc. how the Piper’s Club doesn’t even acknowledge the existence of NPU (or at least, didn’t used to).
I heard the Piper’s Club Ceílí Band on RTÉ once. I thought that a ceílí band fronted by a few sets of UPs sounded pretty damned good (but I admit, I’m biased). So I started asking questions about them from visiting pipers from Dublin and started getting stories about the factions in the piping community in Dublin that eventually led to NPU being formed. Not to name names (most of those people are dead anyways) but the general upthrust of the stories I heard was that pipers felt they were being marginalized by CCÉ, that piping in general was fading fast, and it was some of the pipers, but not all, who split off to form NPU. The Piper’s Club apparently still considers themselves affiliated with CCÉ, not NPU.
I’m not there, not part of that scene, so I only know what people from there have told me about it, but the stories came from several people, some NPU, some CCÉ, and all seemed to follow the same lines.
djm
If we’re discussing “Irish Dancing”, we have to differentiate between the formalised stuff and the more traditional set dancing.
The set dancing was practiced by the country people, at crossroads gatherings and in local houses, and later on in pubs and dance halls. Each region had its own local ‘set’ (Clare set, Galway set, etc), but that did not mean that people only knew their local set. This is certainly the case in south Galway, where my family is from. AFAIK, the Gaelic revival crowd never got their hands on this form, and so it survived as the peoples main dance entertainment, right up until this day (or at least to the previous generation).
The Riverdance stuff, and the stuff at Feiseanna (that I was put through myself as a kid - I still have a drawer full of medals somewhere) has almost nothing to do with this. A strong revival of set dancing was underway in Ireland when I left 30 years ago, led by teachers who turned away from the formalised stuff. I regret that I missed this. I hope it has continued to grow.