Recently I started to learn playing the flute, and now I’ve got a question:
On the whistle, I’ve always played the D in the second register with all fingers down, like XXX XXX, and never had problems with that. But on the flute that doesn’t work so well, so I use the other grip for the D, you know, with the top-hand index finger up, like OXX XXX - works fine, no problem so far.
But how can I play cuts and cranns now? When I lift a finger I get something c-like, which might serve as a kind of strike theoretically, but I find those sudden shifts between the registers quite disturbing; it sounds sort of wrong to me, just like a mistake.
So how to cut the upper D? Should I try to simultaneously tap the top hole to get a proper E or F# as cut-note? Or not cut at all? Or is it maybe just me or the flute? Currently I rather ornament it with tonguing or bending, so…
How do you all ornament the high D?
Thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions!
One option is to play the second octave D with all fingers down. This takes some getting used to
and the sound is more ‘edgy,’ and some people favor it. You might do it only when you intend to
cut the high D.
I did see above before I wrote my post,which was encouraging the OP to keep at that way of playing high D.
It can seem not to work at first, but with practice it’s workable and, for some, preferable, to raising the left index.
Cutting or cranning middle D works just as you described, play OXX XXX and cut with LH3, RH1 and/or RH2. The register switch gets less noticeable once you’ve got your technique up to speed. Personally, I like the effect a lot and find it quite distinctive for the flute…
The major problem when playing middle D unvented, i.e. LH1 down, and cranning it is that with a powerful “irish” blowing style (what usually is considered to be necessary for the “dark tone” we all strive for) it is quite likely that the second harmonic of low D is sounded after a cut, which is high A, and that A shouldn’t appear in a cran, and you don’t want your D to overblow to an A neither. It is controllable with some attention being paid, but a secure and easy way to completely avoid that problem is venting middle D with LH1.
I’m with Steffen. Use your normal cran cut sequence on the vented middle D. (Don’t call it “high D” - that’s confusing! I thought the thread was going to be about 3rd 8ve D!) Yes, that will give a sequence of cuts to near-C-naturals. That’s fine. It’s what I do on whistles too as venting the middle D is very ingrained in my playing and I struggle to not do it - and mostly don’t bother/see no reason to try just for that cran.
Anyway, thanks for your advices so far! Jim, I find your idea really good, to use the all-fingers-down-grip only when needed; it is not that the … middle [!] D is completely unmanagable for me; it’s just much cleaner and more comfortable with the other grip. Just as you said - I might just have to get used to it. Just another matter of practice, I guess. That figures.
Jem and Gabriel, I haven’t realized any complications with overtones yet… maybe this issue will come up when my embouchure and blowing develops? Heck, those flutes are divas! So, if you say the register switch will become less noticable, it’s yet another matter of practice.
Nanohedron, I don’t really want to say which flute I’m playing. It’s one of those ultra-low-budget Tony Dixon one piece flutes…
As I said, the AFD-grip does work with a bit of practice. Just this register-switching issue may well be due to the cheap flute, as it’s maybe not so consistent over the registers. Or, more likely, due to my embouchure.
I’ll keep on practising and experimenting with the two solutions suggested, the unvented middle D grip as well as compensating the register switch with faster cuts - which I do practise anyway, of course.
However, if you’ve still got any additional tips or informations…
I was posting from my phone earlier - so wrote a bit less than I might have ( ). IME the unvented cran/cut fingering does work quite well on both flutes and whistles, and actually on the overblowing point I don’t totally agree with Steffen - but then, I don’t think I drive my flutes as hard as he does. That said, both methods, vented or un- need a degree of care with breath control to work well. I find the unvented version overall (as the unvented middle D itself) has a hollow, wolfy, weaker sound the vented middle D cran is much clearer and burbles better on both families of instrument.
I do think that your flute-beginner status and thence embouchure control is likely a significant factor. The flute you are using should not in this particular matter pose any serious problems, but it is a piece of junk - those things are impossible to play in tune in the 2nd 8ve (they go flat), and striving to do so will handicap you when you get a better instrument. For heaven’s sake, blowing sharp is in any case the fluter’s perennial problem, so training yourself to do it on your starter instrument is a really, really, reallyBAD IDEA! Your ear will inevitably lead you to try to lip up the flatness and you will thus distort your embouchure control development and store up an even worse tendency to blow sharp in the 2nd 8ve when you get a better flute, which you will have to unlearn. For goodness’ sake dump it and get something which is in tune between the octaves!
BTW, I was in The Music Room in Cleckheaton last week and tried a few things they had in stock, including (again!) an up-to-date version of the Dixon basic all-cylinder poly-pipe flute - it was just as unplayably badly out of tune as the older one I have here in a box somewhere (given to me,not bought!). I’d love to ban those things! And it is the more frustrating when there is the cheap and easy Tipple/Fajardo Wedge solution. You can make a wedge for yourself and drop it into the Dixon and it will solve the 8ve tuning, but will cause at least moderate problems with the scale intonation as the tone-holes and sounding length are optimised for the all-cylinder set up and the wedge changes things - i.e. a flute with a wedge needs a different SL and tone-hole design than one without. So don’t bother. Just get another flute!
Re: 3rd 8ve D cuts - using the standard fingering oxx ooo you can cut with either L2 or L3 and the cuts will, depending on the individual instrument and your breath control sound either indeterminate-pitch Eb/Es (above) or C#/Cs (below). These can be incorporated in a roll to either C# or C nat below by executing a tap with either R1 or R1+R2 in the appropriate place, or, I suppose, you could used both sequentially as a 2-cut cran. You can also (not saying I use this, just that it’s feasible) use the oxx xxx fingering double-overblown and you then have viable cuts with L2&3 plus R3 (R1&2 don’t do anything much - try it!) which you can use in any sequence you fancy/which works for you to get a passable 3-cut cran.
Oh dear, that was the reaction I expected when I mentioned the flute. Well, it is not the cylindrical two-piece version but the tapered one-piece; so the flattening 2nd is not that bad, no need for a wedge. That said, I got it for the one and only purpose of having a try at the flute, and it served this purpose well; though being not so well in tune and yes, feeling and looking like a lousy crappy piece of plastic garbage, I’m really having fun with it. So now that I know that I’ll stay with the flute, of course I’m heading for something better. My first impulse indeed was to get a Tipple, but while still considering the options and doing some research, I decided to spend a bit more for a really good delrin flute (not that Doug’s flutes are not really good, I just thought, let’s go the whole hog, get a R&R or Pratten style flute…) - as soon as I am a bit more flush again. Maybe I’ll get myself one as a Christmas present, namely a Copley very probably.
As long as we are referencing Youtube, here is a cut on a second octave D. It occurs in the last phrase of
the tune, at the end of the video, so you can skip right to it. All the fingers are down before/after the cut.
The note played this way has an edgy sound that I like. Again, playing the D this way takes some getting use to
but works well, if you like the sound. For some it’s their typical second octave D.
Yup, that’s it probably. As I wrote, it is not a problem cranning middle D unvented, but I really have to pay attention and back off a lot, which I don’t like to. I use to drive my flute at it’s definitive limit and the high A really often sounds when I try to cran unvented. One reason for that might also be the fact that I use LH3 for cutting, which sort of forces the air column to switch to high A at a certain pressure inside the flute - when using other fingers, the high A isn’t likely to sound. The uilleann chanter has the same “problem” (after all it’s just acoustics), cranning a hard bottom D with LH3 will most likely cause the D to break into a high A. Cutting a middle e on the flute with LH2 can cause the e to break into a high B, cutting F# with LH1 gets C# etc. - has something to do with the harmonics in a given note.
david_h, that’s indeed the flute, and actually I even got it from exactly that shop.
Jim, yeah, I am getting used to it; especially when I already am in the 2nd ocatve, it’s getting quite well. It’s all much easier when you know what to practise!
I just tried cutting a high d OXX XXX with each finger and they all produced the same effect.
I’m sure you know this but its worth repeating that a cut should only serve to break up to consecutive notes of the same pitch, you shouldnt hear the note that was used for a cut.
a Dixon conical is fine enough to get the basics on, I would suggest saving up for a keyless by one of the established small shop makers in a tone wood over delrin. I know some people will have a vitriolic reaction to the suggestion, but I personally and I know many others who agree… delrin flutes are just plain heavy and they feel funny to play, also everyone I’ve ever came across have quiet meepy voices.
plus the resale may be higher down the road and many makers will add keys down the road, that is most likely true with the rubber jobbies too though.
opinions are like belly buttons though, so do want you want to.
Ah, OK, fair enough. I don’t take it back about the Dixon cylindricals, but I’d assume (without ever having tried one) that the conoid body ones should not have that particular problem or detrimental influence. Sounds as though you’re on the right path.
. Which “high D”, Brad? see up-thread! I take it you mean the middle D as, indeed, whichever of the 5 in-contact fingers you cut that with you get some sort of actual or near-C natural. On some instruments they can be very nearly identical in pitch, on others there may be some more noticeable variance. But, as has already been pointed out, it matters not a whit - the cuts are to serve as breaks in the main note, not as pitch-specific melodic notes. This is kinda full circle back to the OP and the query about the different effects produced by cranning on vented or unvented middle D.
For real “high D”, i.e. 3rd 8ve, fingered oxx xxx and double-overblown, see what I wrote above.
A player cuts with a sequence of different fingers to facilitate the speed and rhythm and the clarity thereof in the cran, not to get different pitched sounds. That said, it would be foolish to maintain that, even with very fast and crisp cuts, their pitches are imperceptible - they are usually audible and at hyper-advanced levels one can achieve subtly different effects by varying them; but in general the pitches of them don’t matter very much. Likewise simple cuts with different fingers (where available) can have subtly different effects - brighter, crisper, chiffier, etc. - or less so.
Looking back at the OP, I note that there was a more general Q in it on how we can ornament middle D, by implication (if not intent!) not just with crans. No-one has addressed that.
As I have written on C&F many times in the past, it is perfectly possible, with a bit of practice, to do a “standard” roll on middle D in terms of the pitches of the “break” notes relative to the main one, D. Play D oxx xxx and cut with R3 (not R1 or R2 as you’ll get a C nat of sorts) while simultaneously tapping L1 to get an E (yes, you should be able to switch between the standard fingerings that fast and cleanly! ), then cut with L2&3 together to get a C#. This has quite a different effect again to a cran - whatever the main purpose of rolls as rhythmic articulations, they do also have a melodic effect, IMO.
For example, in a tune I’ve been reviving recently:
The first triplet of bar A3 - ded - can be played as written, inverted to - dc#d - or held as a leant-on dotted crotchet - d3 - , or the triplet can be substituted by a d cran (by either vented or un-vented method!) or a true roll:
Cran (vented) Roll
d oxx xxx d oxx xxx
{a} oxo xxx (cut L3) {e} xxx xxo (cut R1, tap L1 simultaneously)
d oxx xxx d oxx xxx
{g} oxx oxx (cut R1) {c}# ooo xxx (cut L2&3 together)
d oxx xxx d oxx xxx
{f#} oxx xox (cut R2)
d oxx xxx
They’re different, and once mastered, they’re all effective…
“2nd 8ve”? = “middle D”; 1st 8ve = “low D/fundamental/bell note”; 3rd 8ve = “high or top D”. Sorry to be pedantic, but the terminology ought to be simple and clear! It’s easy to understand, and should be easy for us all to use correctly and consistently. Even never using the high/top D is no excuse to (confusingly) transfer its title to the middle one! We all (should!) know it’s there, even if we don’t want it! The “break” between octaves always comes between C# (all fingers off) and D: D is the lowest note of each octave. Simple.
I think it is quite unusual for oxx oxx to be the best 3rd 8ve D. oxx ooo is best on most whistles and flutes, but occasionally one encounters instruments which sound better (tone and/or intonation) using oxx xxx (e.g my Simple PVC Piccolos) or oxx oox or oxx oxx - but on most instruments both the last two go sharp. On a keyed flute venting the Eb key or not can affect all of these alternatives in inconsistent ways, so you have to experiment if the standard oxx ooo(,) isn’t good (always assuming stopper position has been checked etc.).
). IME the unvented cran/cut fingering does work quite well on both flutes and whistles, and actually on the overblowing point I don’t totally agree with Steffen - but then, I don’t think I drive my flutes as hard as he does. That said, both methods, vented or un- need a degree of care with breath control to work well. I find the unvented version overall (as the unvented middle D itself) has a hollow, wolfy, weaker sound the vented middle D cran is much clearer and burbles better on both families of instrument.
I use to drive my flute at it’s definitive limit and the high A really often sounds when I try to cran unvented. One reason for that might also be the fact that I use LH3 for cutting, which sort of forces the air column to switch to high A at a certain pressure inside the flute - when using other fingers, the high A isn’t likely to sound. The uilleann chanter has the same “problem” (after all it’s just acoustics), cranning a hard bottom D with LH3 will most likely cause the D to break into a high A. Cutting a middle e on the flute with LH2 can cause the e to break into a high B, cutting F# with LH1 gets C# etc. - has something to do with the harmonics in a given note.