Current whistle market (aka, why won't this thing sell?)

Whistle
1

I noticed something this morning, after checking in with yet more frustration at the apparent total lack of interest in a Busman whistle I’ve been trying to sell (https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/fs-busman-d-whistle/96015/1). In the Used Instruments Exchange section of this site, there is only one post with any indication of a successful sale. No replies or updates of any kind, other than the original posters making a “bump” post. This includes several current postings for instruments that have in the past been highly sought after and hard to find (a keyless Olwell, two Oz whistles, a silver Copeland, and so on).

I’ve been trying to sell my own Busman bloodwood D+ since July, here, on EBay, and on my local Craigslist. It’s a brilliant instrument, I think the price is a fair one, and it’s actually less than I was offered for it last year, though I decided at the time to hold on to it for a bit longer. Yet nothing. Nada. Bupkis. Not even a single inquiry. If the lack of comments is an indication, others are seeing a comparable silence. I’m seeing one or two indicators of sales in the main forum here, but absolutely nothing in the Used market sub-forum.

Is my impression right, that the buyers for flutes and whlstles have disappeared, or is it just me?

– John

This is also a sincere question about my own posting. Should I just give up on getting a decent price for the Busman and just accept that no one wants it except for a possible lowball offer?

2

Instruments that I would consider player’s instruments seem to sell OK. The class of whistles you see advertised ‘only played a few times’ sold at prices I would consider silly money for a whistle are the ones that linger.

3

If it helps, I want it but don’t have the money nor shall I any time soon.

4

You said that it has a repaired crack. A repair is nothing more than a band-aid. Cracks only get worse, they never heal. That might help to explain why it hasn’t sold at your asking price. It is keeping me away, anyway.

5

Cracks only get worse, they never heal.

Cracks in a wooden instrument can be fixed just fine, when done properly.

That said, the whistle in question however is not a mainstream instrument. A wooden instrument with an extra hole is of limited interest and will only appeal to a specific niche buyer.

6

To some extent, yes the market has gone lower in the last year or two, especially for instruments not highly desired.

Possibly further strikes against:

  1. Unusual wood choice. Blackwood, delrin, brass & aluminum are more common. BTW, bloodwood is very prone to cracking, and I have also heard of (& experienced) many of Paul’s whistles cracking (although he fully supports and repairs them). I think he’s even offered a few that were cracked & repaired prior to initial sale. Wood is a fickle mistress.

  2. Age of the item. Not recent, but not a desirable antique either.

  3. BTW, Paul’s whistles were $50 less in 2012, so they have undergone about a 20% rise since. I know this shouldn’t affect its resale value comparing against Paul’s recent prices, but there may be disagreement about whether the current prices are justified.

  4. The extra hole is of limited appeal, and costs more ($15 from Paul). Many upgrades do not have the same perceived value to a potential buyer.

  5. Brass fittings - meh. I personally prefer silver, nickel or stainless.

  6. Repair and its location. Is that the long split appearing alongside the blade in the photo?

  7. There are plenty of competing whistles available, new, at lower prices from other reputable makers, that do the job just as well or better. I’m partial to a Gene Milligan, over a (sold) Busman & an Abell.

Historically lower resale prices are achieved from particular makers once the instrument has left the lot. Some makers have been able to command a premium, others regularly see 25-50% discounts from new, after the initial sale. From my memory of completed sales, here & on other venues, Busman whistles have not held up well in used prices. Neither have Copley flutes (although I have high regard for the instruments & their quality & workmanship), and I can’t really understand why. Casey Burns folk flutes are a good value, even new, and often maintain their price used. However, his higher-end flutes, with slides, rings, etc. are usually severely discounted when offered used.

Olwell flutes, which often have received premium prices above new, in part due to waiting times for delivery, are now being offered for up to 15-20% off, depending on conditions of sale. Some sellers just need the money. And many prospective buyers don’t have the funds. Blame the economy.

Rudall & Rose flutes, in some instances, have certainly been going for less than in recent years past, unless an exceptional specimen. Still, often worth reasonable restoring costs.

7

Perhaps the Irish instrument market was behind previously, and has finally reached its saturation point? To be honest, though, I’m not hearing of many other used instruments like fiddles selling much either.

8

Generally I like to support the whistle makers and purchase new rather than from the used market. Yes, I’ve purchased several used instruments, hesitantly and carefully, but, I’m always leery of used whistles in that I cannot be sure whether the previous owner has tampered with and customized the whistle to their own liking/playing style. There may be a difference between the whistle makers initial sounding versus an owner’s re-voicing/tuning of the whistle. Buying used is very tricky if one does not know who and what they’re dealing with. Plenty of comments throughout threads about “trying” a whistle before you buy.

I’ve watched all of your postings attempting to sell the bloodwood whistle. I prefer wood even. It is a tough market and timing or holidays may be a factor. Damaged and repaired goods still seem damaged to my thinking even with Busman repairing.

9

I appreciate the honesty, y’all. Thank you. I guess I’m probably pretty naive about it.

So anyone care to venture a guess on what it might actually be worth?

– John

10

The Irish Flute Store, which tends toward high prices, but has provision for trial of instruments, listed a bloodwood Busman D for $250.
http://www.irishflutestore.com/busman-d-whistle-in-bloodwood

Here are some Busmans with other woods, and some modifications, sold or offered earlier this year on C&F (prices included shipping):
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/fs-busman-whistles/94303/1

So, venturing a guess, maybe $180-$210 delivered.

I’m going to use the excuse that you brought up the topic of price on your own item, as otherwise, I suspect we’re in violation of the C&F Consolidated Concordat on Policy (CCCP) #8: Price policing:
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/c-f-consolidated-concordat-on-policy-cccp/78337/1

11

Oh, I hope that’s not considered afoul of the forum rules, as this feedback was/is explictly requested by me. I really appreciate your finding that stuff. Thank you.

12

Happenstance. That was the seller editing his own thread’s title himself, which is not the usual habit at least in the UIE. Most sellers/buyers post “sold” or “done” within the thread but don’t go on to edit the thread title accordingly, so the mods typically tie up that loose end once the OP declares the venture finished. To keep the UIE tidy, regular practice is to put concluded threads into Sold and Old soon after we notice them, and that’s why you don’t see many Sold titles in the working classifieds, if ever. The thread you mention will also be moved to Sold and Old shortly, but this time we won’t need to edit the title for a change.

UIE threads that lie idle beyond two weeks with no further bumps, updates, or clear indication of transaction are simply considered expired, and are moved to Sold and Old just as they are, without title edit. Inactive topics do predominate overwhelmingly in the working classifieds, but this is in part because, as mentioned, we clear out sold threads as soon as possible (we keep it tidy and moving along, remember?), and in part because bumping and updating seems to be the minority practice. IOW, it is simply a matter of appearances. Sold and Old reflects the UIE’s transactional record, whereas the working classifieds are simply a lineup of the latest inquiries awaiting their day. An inactive topic only means that the OP didn’t update, whatever the reason. Some of these may actually have resulted in a sale or trade, but without that information all we have is what the OP saw fit to leave off with, and the mods have more pressing concerns than to go chasing after them to find out. If you’re interested in an expired topic in Sold and Old and want to know more, you can always contact the OP.

So, Sold and Old is where you go to see the actual record of UIE transactions, but since the inclusion of expired inactive threads only adds uncertainty to the statistical picture, I would hesitate to draw firm conclusions about the market on Sold and Old’s basis alone. Still and all, I’d hazard that it looks healthy enough to me.

Updates and bumps are up to the OP’s discretion and/or motivation. 2nd party replies within the UIE, per its rules, are not allowed and are usually deleted. Replies to UIE posts should be done by PM or email.

It’s all there (and more concisely, too) in the UIE Forum Rules.

13

Forgive me because I’m new here…but two weeks seems like an awfully short time frame for moving a FS ad to the ‘expired’ area, especially in these days of people having less to spend on music stuff. I’d think a 30 day span would be more useful and successful (Craigslist runs 30-45 days), and would help reduce the amount of necessary ‘bumping’. Just my humble opinion though… :slight_smile:

14

No worries. :slight_smile:

Clearly, our model is different from Craigslist’s. The UIE’s working classifieds were never intended to be just an inert dumping ground; that’s what Sold and Old is for. So long as the OP is invested in making a transaction, keeping the topic current will be in his or her best interests. For this, even a bump a week cannot seriously be called an imposition on one’s time. Moves it to the top of the list again, too, which can’t hurt. It is not Admin’s business to be concerned with improving the success of these sales, so the less the OP cares, the less we will too. I have to say that two weeks of non-involvement cluttering the working classifieds seems plenty to me. We can always move an expired thread back to activated UIE status on request, and have done. Otherwise all one has to do is post the topic anew.

15

Ah, I understand. I think part of my thoughts were because on many online sites it’s frowned upon either to ‘bump’ one’s own ads, and/or to relist the same item right away again. As long as this is not considered bad form here, then it seems not to be a problem. I do consider 2 weeks to be a very short time frame, but I’m grateful to be here and I can certainly understand your reasons. Thank you! :slight_smile:

16

Hmmm. Our concept is the exact opposite, isn’t it. Who knows what we were thinking. :wink:

But seriously, the members-only community nature of C&F naturally led us to this comparatively brisker, more hands-on method. If C&F allowed just anyone surfing by to post in the UIE, I’m sure we would have done things the other way.

If it eases your mind any, no one else here has objected to it yet that I can remember, and we have never discouraged member input either through private channels or in public (on an official note, that’s so long as the input given in public doesn’t pose an outright violation; obviously yours doesn’t, or we wouldn’t even be having this conversation).

17

I can only speak for myself. I bought a whistle listed here (Alba Bass A) just a week or so ago. It was something I wanted and the price was surprisingly low. (A Goldie F sold recently too.)

I wasn’t interested in the Busman and Oz whistles because I have no familiarity with those makes; neither have I heard much “buzz” about them.

I read a number of positive reviews about MKs, Killarneys, Goldies, Sindts, and Lofgrens and I bought examples from each of these makers.

About the silver Copelands, I’ve encountered good and poor Copelands and besides the prices these go for is out of my budget.

About the Olwell, yes I’m surprised by the low price and the fact that it hasn’t sold. If I was physically capable of playing flute I would have jumped on that one.

18

Just to chime in on cracks in wooden whistles. Wood is indeed a fickle material and some are more fickle than others.
In whistles of mine, and similar design, the cracks most often appear over the tuning slide where the wood is very thin. Being lined by brass, those cracks are generally not a problem, although repairing them is still a good idea. I’ve repaired some( I wouldn’t say many)of my own and some Thin Weasels and never had one come back for a re-repair.
Wooden instrument makers try to take care to prevent these cracks by using well seasoned wood and letting it “rest” at various times in the process to equilibrate. After drilling the bore, I let them sit for a minimum of a month, usually more as the wood absorbs or loses moisture from the surrounding air and for normal internal stresses in the wood to relax. Usually the bore shrinks a tad, but I re-ream them once they’re stable.
Still, as noted, cracks can and do occur. It’s a fact of life with wood.

19

After drilling the bore, I let them sit for a minimum of a month,

A friend of mine makes pipes. He lets his wood settle for at least a year after turning it down and putting in the initial bore. And that is after having the billets in place for several years. Patience and planning ahead is really the name of the game when making instruments in wood.

20

And with plastic as well, witness some of my elder Generations. It’s an imperfect world.

Best wishes.

Steve