Crown Idea for Flutemakers

This Flute from a famous maker of the past…lovely design, why don’t consider it?


I personally prefer it simple and elegant.

The crowns look like they were made from large beads. I have recently been purchasing similar (only smaller) Murano glass beads like these on ebay for my wife, who likes to make bracelets with them.

They look like Cloisonne on silver to me. These are lovely.

The issue from the maker’s side of things is who will pay for it and does it add anything really to the flute, other than a cosmetic touch?

Here is my wisdom for the newer makers out there, based on my own experiences, for when you receive requests for such pretty things.

In these harsh economic times there are very few who would want to pay for such extras. Most want to stick to the basics. What is more important is how the flute plays and feels to the player.

Occasionally similar requests for “tarting up” a flute come in. But then there is the expense of learning how to produce this little bit of bling, as well as the tooling cost. Or outsourcing it and working with a collaborator artist who may or may not get it right. Few customers want to pay for the development* and opportunity* costs (see definitions below) and only want to pay “in-production” retail costs (as if this was something one had made for years, and regularly makes, offers and sells) for bling such as this so the maker ends up having to eat the costs and nearly goes broke for it, just to satisfy the interest of one client.

After all this expense, it then usually turns out that only that one client was willing to afford it and nobody else is interested. And sometimes the client isn’t satisfied with the result that you spent all this time on - and refuses to pay for it or complains about it and generally makes you feel bad about it. Thanks for trying…

In a good economy the cost of such inspiring and intriguing diversions can be absorbed sometimes, especially if it is something that you can add to your designs. If a waiting list is short one would have the time to explore this. But in this current economy, one is better sticking to the core product and making it work well, and not straying too far from that path.

*definitions - development costs: all the tooling and the materials one has to purchase to be able to do this, plus the time required to figure out how to do this.

  • opportunity costs: Tooling up and learning curve takes time, and is usually not paid for. This is time away from regular production, at a regular wage. Instead of spending a month working on this and earning nothing for the time required, one could have been earning money producing regular inventory or filling orders for waiting customers. And avoiding near bankruptcy.

This goes beyond the relatively simple task of blinging up a flute. I’ve occasionally gotten requests from people with fantastic ideas of new instrument types for me to fulfill their dreams. The last one would have probably taken 3 months to figure our and make just the first prototype. So I took my gross wage of the previous year and divided it by 4 to get 3 months of wages, and told this person that this is how much the prototype would cost minimally, money up front - and I couldn’t guarantee that he’d be satisfied with it. He was aghast - expecting to pay about the amount for one of my keyless flutes. I explained to him that I would need to be paid for the development time to produce this, plus materials. He tried to convince me that I was missing out in a huge financial opportunity to bring a new instrument type to the world (actually, it wasn’t new - was just a variation on something that had been done several times before). My final response was that if it was such a huge opportunity, he should pursue it and that I wasn’t interested.

I haven’t heard from him since.

Casey

I based my flute request on an previously done model which included an ornamental end cap. http://www.reviol.co.nz/Pictures/StyxHeadPlug.jpg

The flute maker told me the diameter range that would work well in the end and I had the same jeweler create the piece that I shipped to Reviol. All he did was to add a post to the back so that it could be inserted into the endcap. He also charged me the extra labor for the custom work which I would expect.

Here is the original piece in silver http://macmanusandson.com/body613.htm. I requested the jeweler to produce the same design in gold and black onyx: http://celticmodes.com/images/endcap.JPG. Here it is in context of the flute. http://celticmodes.com/images/reviol_end.JPG

The flute maker didn’t have to also become a jeweler but instead incorporated the bling into his existing endcap. I think this is a good way to handle the situation.

It would be a cool idea if someone had the time, tools, and knowledge to make custom endcaps for people, just as a side job.

This happens in the Bohm world - viz John Lunn (whose entire fantasy bling flute was the subject of a heated and eventually locked thread a while back… :blush: ) - whether in “good taste” (according to personal opinions, that is :wink: :really: ) or otherwise…

Chris Wilkes will do fancy engraving on silver to order - but that’s because he has the gadgets to do it and enjoys playing with them…

I must say the cloisonne enamel terminals to that Ziegler flute (currently on eBay) are (to my taste) rather attractive - and I think celticmodes’ methodology is probably the most reasonable - discuss your fancy with your flute-maker, get dimensions from him and then commission your bling from a suitably skilled and willing jeweller (or whatever craft may be involved) to then be fitted to the flute. One can equally imagine that in some cases doing things the other way around might work better - get your flute, then take it to the jeweller and have your fancies added to it.

Yes, I thought that they were Cloisonne on silver, too, but I couldn’t spell “Cloisonne”, so I mentioned Murano glass beads, which I have been buying from Hong Kong recently. Regardless, there are thousands of ads on ebay for Cloisonne beads. You can search by size. I’m not sure of the diameter of most wooden flutes, but I searched for 25 mm, which seems about right to me. Here is one design that I saw, available in different colors.
ebay ad

Here is another ad for a 20 mm silver Cloisonne bead that would work well as a crown, if you liked the design (I do). ebay ad

Doug,

As a former hot glass artist, with some limited experience in jewelry making I would like to give you a bit of advice there. The cloisonne beads you have identified are spherical as opposed to what I can only assume is a flat or slightly convex disk used for celtic modes ornamental endcap. The enamels that make up most of modern cloisonne are basically fused glass and will not respond well to cutting (if the plan is to “half” the beads to use in an end cap), or drilling (to allow a larger hole for the cork adjuster). Of course you might be successful with a fine tooth wet diamond saw, but I doubt the bead will be easy enough to hold in place for that operation. If the plan is to embed half the sphere in the top of a crown that might work out, but it might look a lot like sticking a marble on top of your flute and would certainly add more weight than expected. Unless you can locate an appropriately sized disk shape, it might be best to approach a jeweler as celticmodes did, with the added benefit of getting a custom design. Of course you are clearly very handy and might want to experiment with doing your own cloisonne work. It isn’t all that hard, though every craft has a learning curve, and enameling ovens are often available used.


BTW, I think that using the word “bling” is somewhat misleading as it has a mildly negative connotation for many. There is a long history of adding ornamentation to instruments, including flutes. I would think that an “enhanced” crown, while not to everyone’s taste, would typically be an indication of a superior quality instrument as the maker wouldn’t put the extra effort into a lower cost production model. My Ward has a lovely inlaid faux ivory disk, and I’ve seen any number of flutes with specially tooled or chased crowns in a variety of materials. The cloisonne from the original post is quite well executed and I’ve been a big fan of celtic mode’s crown detail since he first posted it. Of course that is just my opinion (as aesthetic judgement always is), and I definitely agree with Casey and the other posters who have noted that this kind of work as a “one-of” would be rather expensive.

As an aside, a good friend of mine used to make artwork based on ornamental lathe turning using period lathes with special attachements. This would be well adapted to making semi-custom crowns (particularly out of close grained material like blackwood, delrin, metal…), and I believe that most flute makers already have lathes and are familiar with their use. I’m not sure whether these attachments would work on a more modern lathe, but encourage anyone who is interested to do some research. You might start here: http://ornamentalturning.net/craft/index.html, and here is an indication of the kind of work that can be done by ornamental turning thru layers of differently colored woods: http://www.delmano.com/exhibitions/2005/mainExhibitions/MDaleChase/exhibition_01.htm

Bad taste indeed - less is more

As I mentioned earlier, aesthetic taste is objective, not to mention variable over a period of time. I can certainly appreciate a Zen-like minimalist aesthetic, but there is nothing wrong with a little bit of ornamentation to add a unique touch to a treasured object either.

I do find it odd that someone who just a few years ago said the following about their new/used flute:

I received a keyless Wilkes D flute two days ago. It’s a magnificent instrument with an ornate silver machined end cap, and with wide silver machined rings.

would set themselves up as a champion of minimalism. :smiley: Of course if you want to let the Wilkes go cheap, since it is overly decorated, I’m sure someone will be happy to help you out. :poke:

I think you mean subjective. I agree. Clean lines and simplicity are the hallmarks of an attractive instrument for me.

Yes, I suppose that the sperical beads that I referred to would not work that well as endcaps, although the beautiful endcaps pictured on the antique flutes on the first post appear to have been made from donut-shaped silver-cloisonne beads, where part of the donut shape is in the bore of the flute. I really wasn’t thinking about trying to cut the spherical cloissone beads in half, which I agree would be very difficult to do. Donut-shaped beads are readily available in smaller sizes. I don’t know whether beads, such as shown as endcaps on the antique flutes, are available, or not. I’m guessing that they are.

Doug, I’m pretty sure those Ziegler terminals were not ready made in any sense, certainly not beads - I think they were bespoke, made-for-purpose items. Bear in mid they are different sizes and have different size holes through them and are fitted differently… and the patterns on them are not identical but reduced in size and detail on the foot one because it has to be smaller.

Gulp, of course I meant subjective. Thanks for the clarification :tomato:

I also like clean lines on an instrument, but think it can be carried too far. For example I much prefer the articulation of the silver rings on my Delrin Seery, which have limited mechanical reason for being added (as opposed to a wooden flute where they help prevent socket splitting).

I guess the cleanest, simplest conical flute would be a 1-piece “chair leg” form with 7 holes in the side and no crown at all. Might be a bit tough to transport now that walking sticks have gone out of fashion and the punters get worried about someone carrying a 2’ long stick around. :astonished:

I didn’t necessarily mean “bling” or “tarting up” to be derogatory. Hazardous is more apt.

In addition to being artists we have to also be business people and be successful as the latter to survive doing this, and not become slaves to other peoples’ desires. For me personally, its not financially practical to spend the time pursuing these tangents, especially in this economy. There are people out there who have added these ornamental features to their instruments successfully such as Chris Wilkes’ ornamental turning lathe work, or Rod Cameron’s exceptional engraving of keys and rings.

But whenever I have tried this, its taken much more time in the learning curve and costs for materials compared to what I got paid for it and every time I nearly went broke in the process. Am not bitter - just gun shy. I wanted to explain why I wouldn’t necessarily jump at the chance to add such a feature - and give a caution to other makers who might be interested, but not aware of the consequences. The original posting asked us “flutemakers” what we thought of it. So I gave my cold sobering analysis, as a well seasoned flutemaker.

I’ll stick to plain and simple.

Be so good as to indulgently permit a pedant his nitpickery: rather than cloisonné, the technique seen in the OP’s picture of the encaps is instead, I believe, champlevé; the difference being, broadly speaking, that with cloisonné the enamel is hemmed in by wires soldered to the base’s surface. With champlevé, the metal base is carved out - which is what we seem to be looking at here - and the hollows filled with the enamel.

I realise that “cloisonné” has probably become a colloquially acceptable catch-all term these days for sundry decorative vitreous enamelling techniques, but this tidbit of info might get you a free beer if it comes down to a bet. I have no idea what species of bars you’d have to patronise for the likelihood of that sort of wager, and to come away unscathed besides. I’m just sayin’. Plique-à-jour, anyone? :wink:

oh, you know it honey…

Ladies and Gentlemen here is a man that knows his bling!


humbled, he shuffles off to turn out horses and muck stalls

Feh. On one level it’s just trivia.

Knowing about this stuff is sort of like having a sharp eye for the finer points of food when you’re continually hungry: IOW, my tastes far outstrip my means. Oddly enough though, I usually don’t care much for cloisonné and the like, as an occasional collector of tchotchkes and oddments. Gimme the surprise of a weirdly evocative found object any day. :thumbsup:

At least mucking stalls is an honest occupation. Would an opulent, decoratively enamelled manure fork improve the task?

Elegance, form & function :smiley:
I’s love quality tools!

I can appreciate the shiny bits, the pretty doodads, but I don’t solicit them.


Now, if someone else is buying, I can get behind some serious wine snobbery! :smiley:
The wife was the IT director for one of the local wine conglomerates for a few years, it was enjoyable.