On 2002-05-13 10:19, Bloomfield wrote:
The D Sindt is actually quite sharp on oxxooo and on oxxxox. Some people mind (and tape the F# and the B holes to alleviate the problem), others don’t mind. And then there are the half-holers. There are several threads discussing this. It would be a good topic for the Matrix, including the recent thread describing how you transplant a Feadog brass shaft onto Sindt D head.
Wouldn’t that be implant? I recently sent Ann & John Sindt some email messages making a strong case that John should redesign the holes on his D whistles because, although he and other half-holers don’t care, in my view the impossibility of playing an acceptable cross-fingered C-natural is a serious defect. After I mentioned the debates on here, including the threads about putting other whistle bodies into a Sindt head, I got a reply from Ann that John was going to try to make a modified D body.
Maybe a bombardment of emails making the same point would bring John to take the problem seriously. So get writing, cross-fingering Sindt fans!
I love my Sindt but I don’t use it as much as I would because of the C-nat issue. In fact, I have gotten some fine sandpaper and was going to go to work on a Feadog shaft to implant
I think we should take up StevieJ’s idea and all drop John a line to show the interest in a new shaft. Here is the contact info that I have gotten from the main page/John Sindt interview:
John Sindt
16 Second Ave
Nyack, NY 10960
914-358-4943 AgEsmay@aol.com
When I ordered my Sindt D, I loved dealing with John and Ann. Apart from making a gorgeous whistle, they are wonderful people who operate by the honor-system and I am sure they would love to get the feedback.
Here are the hopeful words from Ann - hope she’ll forgive me for quoting from a private message.
"John said he thought he would try getting a 'good' C nat using your fingering but I have no idea on a time frame."
The fingering I suggested BTW was oxx-xox à la Generation because that’s what I’m used to and because it (I would imagine), would involve less re-engineering than oxx-ooo.
On my Sindt D, I’m able to get a good in-tune C using the standard 0xx 000 cross fingering and underblowing the note. Takes some practice to do quickly but is a reasonable skill to learn. On slower passages, when I have time to do the 0xx x0x fingering, I’ll use that instead.
I have an order in for a couple of Sindts (I hear the A is pretty well in tune with the two-finger), and will send them a note.
Steve, I’m wondering why you draw a distinction between the forked fingering and OXX XXO. They seem equally cumbersone to me, although I suppose it’s all what you’re used to
On the few Gen-type whistles I own, the forked fingering is almost indiscernably different in pitch from the two-finger; to get a noticeably lower note you have to go to the OXX XXO fingering, which I actually find easier than the forked – I guess because the fingers are consecutive.
Charlie, on a Generation or Clarke traditional the difference between oxx-ooo and oxx-xox is slight, but it is perceptible and gives the truest C-natural, as far as I can tell. The fingering you suggest gives a note that sounds flat to my ear, with a tone that is even weaker and more unstable than the others.
Michael, no doubt you can get around the problem with breath control. I still find oxx-xox way too sharp on my Sindt D, though. I can’t see what John has to lose by redesigning the body - unless it somehow made him rethink his entire even-tempered tuning - but we would have a lot to gain. We’d have a whistle that behaved in a standard fashion and did not require workarounds.
If you don’t play them already, just wait till you start messing with Irish flute… 100+ cents of pitch shift up or down possible with tiny variations in breath, lip, pressure, etc… Don’t even get me started on playing the Uilleann pipes in tune…
My B-flat Sindt doesn’t have the cross fingered sharpness problem.
Might be that you’re blowing too hard overall, I find that my high D Sindt requires much less pressure than most of my other foofy designer whistles (Copeland, Burke).
Just to lend some supporting evidence to Stevie here: The only reason I’ve never considered getting a Sindt is because of the reported non-standard cross-fingerings. By all other accounts, they sound like fine whistles. But, if I can’t use standard cross-fingerings on it, it’s much simpler for me to buy another fine whistle that doesn’t have the same ‘problem’. (I put problem in quotes, because not all people consider it one.)
Greg
On 2002-05-13 20:08, StevieJ wrote:
Charlie, on a Generation or Clarke traditional the difference between oxx-ooo and oxx-xox is slight, but it is perceptible and gives the truest C-natural, as far as I can tell. The fingering you suggest gives a note that sounds flat to my ear, with a tone that is even weaker and more unstable than the others.
Michael, no doubt you can get around the problem with breath control. I still find oxx-xox way too sharp on my Sindt D, though. I can’t see what John has to lose by redesigning the body - unless it somehow made him rethink his entire even-tempered tuning - but we would have a lot to gain. We’d have a whistle that behaved in a standard fashion and did not require workarounds.
On 2002-05-13 15:09, StevieJ wrote:
The fingering I suggested BTW was oxx-xox à la Generation because that’s what I’m used to and because it (I would imagine), would involve less re-engineering than oxx-ooo.
I put in my two cents worth to Ann as well. Although oxx xox might indicate less re-engineering than oxx ooo, heck, why not do it right the first time. I put in a very firm vote for the two fingered version.
Cheers,
David
P.S. IMHO, Generations suck for that cumbersome forked fingering. Why would anyone want to go there?
While I can certainly appreciate the effort of people to get John Sindt to make a whistle where the “oxxooo” fingering (or whatever cross-fingered Cnat suits your fancy) is in tune, I really can’t see what the big fuzz is about.
When I got my Sindt D (late 1998 I think), I taped over part of the first hole, which brought the “oxxooo” Cnat nicely into tune. The tape’s still there, and these days I don’t think about it at all.
Frankly, I am amazed that people would decide not to get a Sindt whistle solely because of this.
Driving a Sindt D, I get nervous about tunes in G where you can be exposed on long Cnats. Or ‘Dusty Windowsills’ (my wife’s favourite tune title) in Am with Cnat in the opening phrase.
But then you find there’s lots of tunes in G that don’t need C’s at all - Kesh, Old Favourite, etc
The Sindt D is an ace whistle, I’ll live with its ‘character’.
I can perfectly live with the whistle as I got it but a re-think of the whole thing wouldn’t be bad. Especially the equal tempered tuning, the c natural and that silly engraved line that makes the whistle play a quarter of a tone off concert pitch when I or anybody else I know plays it.
On 2002-05-13 23:24, StevieJ wrote:
You must use a Macintosh and drive an automatic! C’mon man - because it’s there!
Pretty funny Steve! (or perhaps it is you who are secretly posting from a Mac )
Cheers,
David
P.S. BTW, mine is a PC I built from scratch and presently is running Windows 2000
P.P.S. Jens. Just to let you know that Greg is not alone in his sentiments, one of my whistle playing comrades just recently decided to forgo getting a Sindt specifically because of this issue and went for a costlier instrument that better suited her needs.
[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2002-05-14 06:41 ]
On 2002-05-14 06:58, Peter Laban wrote:
Try playing The Jolly Seven or Humours of Scariff half holing and see what you make of it.
Well - playing devil’s advocate here - at East Durham last year, having heard that Mary B only ever half-holes, I got her to play Richard Dwyer’s and The Flogging Reel for me, and she did the tricky passages without batting an eyelid, or should that be without crossing a finger, so she could probably manage Humours of Scariff without too much trouble.
On the other hand, she does play with her fingertips. I’ve yet to see anyone who plays with the flats of the fingers execute this kind of trick. And (hate to say this but) if you listen carefully to her playing of Richard Dwyer’s on her record, it’s my impression that that rocking-pedal C-natural passage doesn’t sound as good or as clean as the rest of her playing. [Crosses himself hastily.]
Anyway, just because Our Lady of Spiddal can do it doesn’t make it feasible for the rest of us. I was at the new Cirque du Soleil show the other week and was delighted by the unusually elegant postures of a contortionist. Don’t think I’ll try any of them, though.
PS I think it’s funny reading things that amount to (sorry Jens), yes, I had to put tape over the hole, but why should John change anything? Yes I have to reboot my Windows PC three times a day, but why should Microsoft try to improve things?
(or perhaps it is you who are secretly posting from a Mac 
)
