How many parts of a set of pipes do you think you could get made by someone who is not a pipemaker ???
Any half decent wood turner would be able to turn out the external profile of any of the wooden parts,and even bore out the drones would be easy enough to a good woodturner,and there are good woodturners everywhere!!
There are some companies that specialise in making small metal parts to order,any good leather worker could make a bag and as seen from this forum its easy enough to make a bellows!!
So all you would need is a good set of plans,make individual drawing of each part and contract them out to the appropriate tradespeople and then assemble them when you get them back!!!
IMO this kind of thinking is responsible for a lot of substandard sets. It’s not so easy as it looks to produce quality parts.
Some pieces could be contracted out, conceivably, but not at any cost savings - for instance bags can be bought from bagmakers and I have a friend who has taken some interest in bellows making - but good bellows are far from simple to make[*]. The skills are still pretty specialized if you want to do a decent job. For instance, most woodturners would not have experience doing long hole boring of the precision/quality of finish required - yer standard long auger will produce a mediocre bore at best.
Nice theory and you can see how well it works with the Pat O’Starnee built sets. They can turn wood but they cannot make decent pipes - how long have they been making highland pipes - 50 years or more and still have not got it together so even less chance with something as complex as the Uilleann Pipes
Unfortunately the woodturners than can bore long holes are making items such as lamp standards using large diameter shell augers where the finish does not matter. Cannot really imagine the tone of a set of drones made with 3/8" (9.5mm bits)
Although I do not take on apprentices I have had a number of woodturners in the workshop who have built instruments but it has always been an uphill struggle as there is far more to making pipes than turning a bit of wood.
Bending metal tubes. I did look into this as there are firms that do this service. Most of those contacted shied away from brass and nickel silver and those who would could not produce them tight enough.
As Bill says some parts such as bellows and bags (eg L&M) can be brought in and I too have a friend who is now starting to make bellows (I do not think it is the same one )
Plans are as you say Rory readily available such as the Rowsome ones on my website. I have thought of taking these off as they have caused a number of complaints because I have only given internal dimensions and lengths. It seems they need the external ones as well as they do not have the savvy to create there own design.
I do remember once hearing from Hamish Moore (Scottish pipemaker) that he had a few people come in from time to time to do some work on some secondary prepping of parts, cutting leather for bags, making bellows, etc…Not sure if he still does that. He also has teamed up with a jeweller/metalsmith who can do custom engraving on your set if you don’t think it’s expensive enough as is…
A few pipemakers might subcontract out a few of the menial tasks and some makers don’t bother with bags but order them from another source, but I don’t think that stuff is all that common…
From a purely economic viewpoint it is unlikely that pipemakers would contract out work. As we know some makers have apprentices or co-workers who are themselves highly skilled, and for the most part these have learned their skills “in house” where quality control can be directly applied.
From an aesthetic viewpoint it is also unlikely that a maker would allow outside workmen, however skilled, to turn out components. As Chris pointed out, tight turned U-bends turned out to be not so tight, turned out by outside U-bend turners.
Add to this the fact that it would not be economically viable for an OEM to produce the small quantities of parts that a maker would need, even over a year or two, then the idea would not seem to make economic sense.
If you see the process of pipemaking as a learning curve then you would expect to start off on “menial” tasks in house - although making airtight bags and efficient bellows is no mean achievement - before knocking out your first chanter, or even a four reg, quad-bored, six drone, double chanter Taylor style set.
All that would have to be done by the pipemaker is the internal stuff and a woodturner could do the external stuff .
I would not be surprised if that is what actually happens in one of the workshops that employ more that one man.
And I think many would be surprised to learn of one very famous pipemaker that contracts out alot of him work including the regulators to outside (outside the country) woodturners!!!
RORY
PS there could be a real niche in the market for someone like CJ Dixon (I,m surprised he has not done it already) to supply predrilled sticks of wood for the hobby turner to finish into pipes !!!
What do mean insult ,I don,t understand ?
There is a very clear business idea for someone with the talent to do it ,Mr Dixon has shown in the past he likes this form of Kit idea and it has worked for him !
Why would anyone be insulted??
rorybellows wrote: “All that would have to be done by the pipemaker is the internal stuff and a woodturner could do the external stuff” .
Check out Alan Ginsberg’s site. He offers pre-reamed chanter sticks and various other parts.
I recall that Chris Bayley used to offer a similar service some years ago, but desisted because the take up level was not high. This is clear proof that someone who wants a set of pipes wants a pedigree to them, and some sort of professional quality and guarantee.
I am not denigrating those makers who, for one reason or another contract out some parts of the pipemaking process, but - as I wrote previously - quality control is paramount; imagine if your Wooff or Froment set turned out to be partially made by some outside wood or metal turner. Would you still be prepared to pay the going rate? Or would you be happier paying a higher price for “master work”
I understand Alan Froment applied his skills to Hevia y Paragon’s operation in Spain, yet judging from the adverse comments of players they clearly do not have a master pipemaker overlooking happenings in their workshop…
The thing is that there are some excellent woodturners out there, and if Froment or Wooff were applying their quality control, on the contracted out items,how would you know that they were not turned by them???
Rory wrote
there are some excellent woodturners out there
Am beginning to wonder if you have ever seen a set of pipes Rory - if and when you do pay particular attention to them and you will see there is a lot more to them than just simple woodturning
OK Elmek you may have read my posts ,but you have not understood them,so I,ll explain !!
There is alot more than just simple woodturning ,yes,but there is SOME woodturning and what I,m saying is that this woodturning could be contracted out !!
this is of course just a hypothetical discussion ,but what is important to the pipemaker is the internal work done on the bores ,which of course is done by the pipemaker ,the quality of the external turnings can be accessed by the pipemakers eye in seconds
I would think the turning of ivories is very time consuming and some of them have no influence on the sound of the pipes at all ,so these could easily turned on contract !!
Given the availability and the cost of ivory, it is one thing I wouldn’t farm out.
Other mounting materials have their ups and downs and can be tricky and sometimes dangerous (I have wirnessed a few faux-ivory explosions on the lathe) and something I think a pipemaker would want to be in control of them selves… if for anything, keeping tabs on QC.
While an interesting idea, I am of the opinion that self respecting pipemakers would want to monopolize every aspect that goes into the construction of their pipes. Call it a pride thing, but I doubt they would want their names associated with crap work and I equally doubt they’d want to take the time to check t6he work of another… let alone redo something that wasn’t done to their high expectations.
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