Hi all.
I’m in the process of doing a project on adjudication and competition in ITM, and I was wondering if there’s anyone out there who competes, or who has competed in competitions in the recent past. I’m looking for perspectives and feelings on this topic, from the point of view of the competitor. If anyone can help, please PM me, or email fluter_dAThotmail.com (please replace AT… you all know the drill!)
Thank you in advance!
Deirdre
[Edit: I hope this is an okay forum to use - please let me know if there’s a problem with it. D]
[ This Message was edited by: fluter_d on 2002-12-17 10:35 ]
Seems quite legit to ask the question here, D. If you haven’t posted it on the poststructural whistle board, which is the main forum here, you should do so and refer interested people to this thread (if you can’t do a blue clicky thing, I’m sure some helpful person will oblige).
I never competed, the whole competition thing is to my mind alien to the spirit and nature of the music, though some of the well-known performers have travelled that route.
One of my daughters once took part as a member of a group in an all-Ireland fleadh (living in Belgium the group was able to get a bye direct into the finals). The Irish-based kids competing were of an excellent standard, so I’m not guilty of sour grapes at the fact that our little expats weren’t placed, but the whole get-up of many of the Irish-based groups created a strong impression in my mind that they were focusing more on a performance for a tourist-trap cabaret than just enjoying the music. When I read of people selling wigs for child entrants for dancing competitions to look more “authentically Irish”, I really get the willies. But I’m sure that these are issues which you planned to explore anyway.
Speaking of dancing reminds me that it was the competitions which gave us Michael Flatley, for better or worse…
Over to the US-based majority for further comments.
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2002-12-18 04:15 ]
Competitions give me the Willies too, I was nearly entered into a piping competion during the mid eighties when a special Breandan Breathnach memorial cup was put in place. Breandan was vehemently opposed to competitions [and the organisation organising them]. Some friends of Breandan thought it a good idea if I’d enter and win it as the likes of me winning such a competition would certainly have given Labhras and his cronies the Willies. It was a fun idea but I didn’t bother actually going for it.
Never mind all that.
A pupil of mine is a really wonderful flute and whistle player with a beautiful Clare style. He entered in the Fleadh [and I add, as a whistle and fluteplayer] last year, a perfectionist he was nervous, practising away, he played lovely and tastefully.
He didn’t make the cut, one of the reasons given by the adjudicator was that he didn’t vent octave d with the top finger in some cases. I fail to see how that diminished his music.
[edit for typos and to make minor clarifications]
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-12-18 04:03 ]
A Brendan Breathnach memorial cup! How richly post-modern (or probably pre-modern, given the organisation to which I presume Peter refers).
My perceptions of CCE are probably somewhat unfair, given that they are largely filtered through Brendan’s world-view, but one of the issues which he often cited as a measure of what he hated about CCE was a controversy among its apparatchiks about whether to award bonus marks (like the bonus marks available for taking the Leaving Cert and Civil Service examinations through Irish) to candidates in tin whistle competitions who played a Clark’s rather than a Generation (there was no other option in those days), because the Clark’s was “more traditional” but required more air.
Well, my view of Comhaltas is in the Breathanh end of the spectrum and has come dow nfro mthat camp too. But if it’s unfair, see how they tried to gain control over the funding of traditional music through the recent arts bill [a discussion that didn’t enter thsi board but was fairly lively elsewhere]. There are a lot of good people working in Comahaltas a grass roots level but the rest of it…
On 2002-12-17 16:06, Peter Laban wrote:
A pupil of mine > is a really wonderful flute and whistle player with a beautiful Clare style. He entered in the Fleadh [and I add, as a whistle and fluteplayer] last year, a perfectionist he was nervous, practising away, he played lovely and tastefully.
He didn’t make the cut, one of the reasons given by the adjudicator was that he didn’t vent octave d with the top finger in some cases. I fail to see how that diminished his music.
Now that’s almost ludicrous to read about! Haven’t they considered that not venting high D with the top finger actually gives a harmonically richer tone?
On 2002-12-18 06:42, Roger O’Keeffe wrote:
Maybe I’m just old-fashioned, but I do find it hard to trust a man who dyes his eyebrows…
HA! Reasonable point… although anyone with that much dedication to looking like they haven’t dyed ANYTHING has to have quite a lot of determination!
To clarify a few points: my project is basically on performance theory, and how it relates to ITM. So I’m looking at the role of the adjudicator (in general, with particular reference to ITM), perceptions of that role (from adjudicators, and competitors), and the bases on which adjudication decisions are made. Which is why I’m looking for reactions. And I do think that the best way to look at competition in ITM is as an opportunity to gauge personal progression - to have someone other than your teacher give some constructive criticism. There’s really no other reason to take part - unless you’re the glory-seeker type…
Thank you all! I will now attempt [drum roll] to transfer this thread to the other forums…
Deirdre,
Are you in the Trad. Music program at U. Cork? Do you know Frank Torpey (Bodhran player)? I met him in Limerick this summer, really nice fellow. I like his style.
Have you contacted Comhaltas? I know that they recently held a couple of Adjudicator Workshops in the US. They must have a list of criteria. You could maybe interview some adjudicators as well as competition participants, although you have probably already thought of that!!
By the way…Peter’s comment that the whistle competitor had points taken off for not venting the high D. When I was in Dublin this summer, the whistle teachers at CCE insisted on venting the high D. Their reason was that most whistle players (at least in Ireland) go on to other instruments such as flute, and on the flute the high D must be vented.So it is best to teach it that way. However, in a workshop I took with Mary Bergin a couple of summers ago, I’m sure that she plays low and high D with identical fingerings, and she was an All Ireland Champion.
Hi Deidre
As well as CCE the Oireachtas hold competitions every year. Corn ui Riada is a big competition in Sean-Nos singing. These competitions have been going on for a long time (did Willie Clancy win a gold medal at an Oireachtas competition in early fifties).
They introduced a new piping competition called the Brendan Breathneach memorial cup. Entrants had to be either All Ireland champions or previous Oireachtas winners.
Oireachtais gives cash prizes and there is huge support for these competitions from the Gaeltacht areas.
My only experience with a competition was in Listowel years ago when I wondered into an All Ireland under 14 fiddle competition. The judge had to decide between Martin Hayes and Kevin Glackin for the first spot. Micheál o’hAlluin ( the non-fiddle playing judge) choose Martin over Kevin. They both sounded equally impressive to me.
The piper Thomas o’ Canaín does a lot of adjudicating ( he’s in your neck of the woods I think).
Cheers
John
I haven’t heart Tomás Ó Canainn since the early days of Na Filí, so I may be misjudging him. But I just hope he’s a better adjudicator than he was a piper.
Chris Langan had a comment about him ‘they used to say he had pencil-marks on his drone slides so he’d know where to tune them’. I met TOC during the summer, he seemed in good form though he didn’t play.
Thank you all for your input! The project deadline approacheth rapidly, so I’m going to bump this up to the top again and hope… Yes, I have (or will have) adjudication guidelines for the major competitions, and yes, I am in studying Music at UCC and do know both Frank Torpey and Tomas O Canainn (although not well).
I’m going to re-state my query for anyone who doesn’t want to read the entire thread again (apologies and thanks to those who have!).
Deirdre
I’m in the process of doing a project on adjudication and competition in ITM, and I was wondering if there’s anyone out there who competes, or who has competed in competitions in the recent past. I’m looking for perspectives and feelings on this topic, from the point of view of the competitor. If anyone can help, please PM me, or email fluter_dAThotmail.com (please replace AT… you all know the drill!)
To clarify a few points: my project is basically on performance theory, and how it relates to ITM. So I’m looking at the role of the adjudicator (in general, with particular reference to ITM), perceptions of that role (from adjudicators, and competitors), and the bases on which adjudication decisions are made. Which is why I’m looking for reactions!
HA! Reasonable point… although anyone with that much dedication to looking like they haven’t dyed ANYTHING has to have quite a lot of determination!