Commercial fiddles

Trad Irish Music
1

Hi all you fiddlers,

In a tragic incident, I recently became in need of a new fiddle. Since I am limited in funds, I need to go with a commercial fiddle as a replacement. Who has some ideas about the best makes/models? Many commercial fiddles do not have the tonal qualities that are desirable for ITM playing, most being classically oriented. I’m most interested in good tone, ease of response/intonation, balance across all the registers and overall quality/durability. Under a $1000 is my range.

Thanks,
Corin

2

You may be assured that any Violin or Fiddle has more than all of the tonal qualities you’ll ever need for ITM or Classical since nobody is so talented they can exhaust them.

The type of string and setup might cause you to imagine such limits, but there may be others, for example, how the Bow is used, or the amount of rosin, or the level of humidity and so on.

Therefore any instrument in your price range would be suitable. However under 1000 USD you’ll likely not get a ‘maple’ back and sides or something else will be wrong.

3

By tonal qualities, I was referring to warmth vs brightness. Many classical violinists prefer a brighter more cutting tone in their instrument, and a lot of that is inherent to the instrument rather than the player. Also a lot of those violins are more powerful in the treble end, and less balanced. I like a good strong base, and a richer tone than many violins have.

Corin

4

A lot (in my limited experience) of the brightness is intentionally cut down on fiddles for ITM by using a lower, flatter bridge. You can see this on many ITM fiddlers’ instruments where the bridge has almost a flat arch. The G and E strings are almost the same height from the body. On a classical violinist’s instrument, you will see that the G is way up off the body. This enables the strings to ring, whereas ITM fiddlers tend to go for a flatter, duller sound.

Another aspect can be the type of hair on the bow, and the type of rosin used. ITM fiddlers often go for something pretty rough and heavy gauge, whereas for classical you would go with something lighter and finer.

It really gets down to you trying different stuff out and finding what suits you personally. Its not likely that you will find the best combination on your first buy, but experience and trial and error will probably get you where you want to be.

djm

5

Coming from a classical background, I didn’t see one particular tone of violin favored over another across the board. You can find a gigantic variety of tonal characteristics within the typical classical realm–players like to find instruments that complement their particular playing style. As that varies from person to person, there isn’t one standard tone for a classical violin.

Having said all that, you never EVER want to get an instrument without trying it out, regardless of recommendations or brand reputation. I’d personally suggest (though take my free advice for what it’s worth) that you go to a local music store, if you have one, give them your price range, and try everything out within that bracket. If you don’t have a great shop in the area, you may want to take a look at trying to find a new fiddle online. Many online retailers offer trial programs where they send multiple instruments to you for an almost neglible fee. You try them out for a given period of time and send anything back that you don’t wish to keep. In addition, most retailers actually help you find instruments that fit the specifications you give them. If you call them and tell them your price range and what you are looking for, what sort of music you plan to play, etc, they will help you pick out the instruments to try that they feel are best suited to your needs. The sites I use most are www.swstrings.com and www.sharmusic.com

Anyway, sorry for rambling, I am sorry to hear about your mishap, I can only imagine how devastating that would be. Good luck in finding a replacement.

6

Meeting professional Folk and Classical maestros in my life changed how I choose an instrument. I DON’T listen too much but attend to how I find the fit to my particular body shape.

IOW what you sound like on one fiddle is about how you WOULD sound like on a Strad. The myth of a better fiddle is well worn out by stores and traders who like to get your money. In fact, a good student model set up and strung accordingly CAN sound far far better than an instrument costing millions. Also englighten yourself by asking a pro to play a lowend instrument. You may be somewhat shocked to find how GREAT these sound when well played.

:0)

7

Another thing that can skew the sound of any particular instrument is how often it has been used. The more an violin is played, the more sensitive it becomes to sound vibrations. Many fiddlers/violinists will hang their instrument in front of their stereo speakers just to keep the wood vibrating. So a fiddle that’s never been played, or has sat in its case for years, will sound duller than one that sees regular use.

Besides music stores, there are a lot of people who restore and resell violins/fiddles. They may not be cheapest, but at least if they are in your local area you will have someone close who can help you set up your fiddle just for you. That’s how I found mine. I followed the same method mentioned above, and tried about twenty before I found one that just seemed right to me. It wasn’t the cheapest or most expensive, but it is the one I probably always will use.

djm

8

You’re right DJM, a fiddle that is new or has been unplayed needs to be “opened up” On the bridge thing, I’ve never found it to make a difference if the bridge is cut right. I use a standard bridge cut, just a little less tuning in the wings to damp things just a bit. I’ve found that double stops and droning is just as easy with a rounder bridge if I play with a better bow. As for hair, I just use regular unbleached hair, nothing fancy, seems to be more durable than the bleached stuff. I haven’t lost any hairs yet in 2 years on this bow, haven’t needed a rehair either! I wish I had the option of trying out a lot in my range like you did, unfortunately, as I note later there’s a dearth of affordable fiddles around here for some reason.

Toasty, I agree and disagree at the same time. I’ve played both commercial student type violins, old nicer trade violins and benchmade violins. The player definitely makes a difference, but, I can tell you in my experience, there is definitely a difference. A better fiddle is more likely to project better, ideally the sound will project outward, rather than to your ear. It’s hard to describe, but some fiddles are vey loud in the ear and lose depth of sound as you get further away. Better ones sound easier under the ear, but richer and more vibrant as you move away. Not always an issue for playing jigs and reels at a session, but for playing solo, or for airs it’s a plus. Also the graduation of the top is better in higher end fiddles. Many luthiers can work wonders with a lower grade instrument by simple regraduating the top. Of course, it’s no longer a lower end violin, since that type of work is one of the things that separates mass produced from shop made. That said, I’ve played some older, fairly plain German trade fiddles that had wonderful qualities for ITM, but I haven’t seen any like those made now.

Karina, I agree. I always like to try 'em before I buy 'em. A friend of mine has a violin shop here, but he only deals with hand made, higher end stuff. He’s got nothing under $2000. They’re all sweet fiddles though! The perks of having sessions in his shop, I get to test drive some nice stuff! A fellow in Tennesee named Steve Perry has some great fiddles that are set up specifically for traditional music and he come’s VERY well recommended. He gets them from Europe in the white, good wood, does all the graduation, bass bar and other setup and does incredible varnish work. That’s probably the only sight unseen purchase I’d make, and he has a no-hassle return period too. But, I’d have to pay around $1600, which is a bit more than I can afford now.

Whew! Long post, I have to stop waiting so long to post.
Corin

9

I have two Gliga violins, one at work and one at home, and I am delighted with them. I don’t think you get better tone-for-money anywhere else.

10

We bought a Knilling 45 for my daughter (classical only) and while it’s over a grand, it’s not a lot over a grand. We auditioned it with a number of other violins and it had the best sound in the price range. But of course we weren’t playing jigs and reels.

11

Now I’ve gotten to thinking about it, and again having read all the comments, I feel compelled to add a few observations which may save this novice both time and money.

meempt seems to think exclusively in terms of ‘the Violin’ being the object of major concern, and for that reason I suspect that they are not long playing or having begun years ago quit and returned later.

The fact is, nobody a long time playing would be talking about the Violin, but most often discussed are Bows - and …ahem the most important part of that, the Hank or hair in the Bow.

In a way this is a fortunate thing since a novice could be honking about with all kinds of Violins in search of the one that would WORK better with a pre-selected Bow.

A few weeks, at the very least, of expert tuition in the correct use of the Bow would probably change such a stray’s life entirely, since merely keeping a square light stroke can improve byond recognition most student’s dynamics; of course, I’m not saying ALL students are that bad, but I am saying most that jump into Fiddle in order to join a Irish session are, and worse.

To save the day, though, I must add that in Ireland where pigheadedness is a way of life for many, the Stentor Musical Instrument Company is selling Chinese pearwood fiddles by the shipload. This Violin is one instrument that can be badly Bowed and still sound very sweet; again, there are many similar student outfits that permit a scratchy method and not sound too irritating.

In general and to save me returning with more ideas, good flat Bowing of long light strokes while reasonably square to the strings and midway twixt brindge and f/b end, will yield a nice if large sound with lots of overtones and depending on the weather/rosin may be a bit of shock in not being at all scratchy to most willfull/bold students - esp Celtic/folk!

12

toasty,

I’m actually not a novice. I’ve been playing for over 5 years quite actively. As far as a bow is concerned, I happen to have a wonderful, superb bow already. You are right that a bow is very important. However I don’t need a bow at this point, I need another instrument to use it with. My bowing happens to be pretty good too.

Corin

13

5 years …

as I suspected

try 35 years, then tell me what you think!

14

Well, 5 years is a bit shorter than 35. But it hardly qualifies as novice on any instrument. I’d mention that I have not come to all these conclusions alone. Many accomplished fiddlers I know would agree with me, I won’t name names, but you’ve heard some of them on CDs and they’re quite good. I’m not just talking out my arse and I’m not trying to say a cheaper fiddle can’t be a good one, just that a less cheaper one is most likely going to be better. That goes for any instrument. Besides, I’ve played enough fiddles to know first hand that there are indeed differences between a $500 box and a $2000 box. Even with my piddly 5 years of experience.

Corin

15

Don’t be complaining like a whinging pom!

:0)

16

Congratulations, you get the Troll of the Week award. Foolish of me to get sucked in.

Corin

17

I hope Toasty doesn’t turn into the Royce of the ITM forum…

djm

18

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

19

No problem.