Well, as my dad always says, there’s no accounting for taste!
heh this reminds me very much of the many past discussions around pipes coupled with a certain rectangular instrument ..that makes whooshing..ethereal sounds…
Hya Andyp Welcome to the forum 
Right thats the lovey dovey bit o’er wi.
I’ve just noticed your little comment on me being a peasant from whence the term churl derived.
Interestingly enough ITM is Peasant Music ,played by peasants for peasants.
I am totally unawares of a jig called Titanic therefore when playing ma Irish pipes( for lo, that is whit they are) the toon frae the film Titanic would not even entereth ma heed.
I only play peasant music therefore am truly churlish.
As for me getting oot more 
pray that when I am ,that oor paths do not cross, ya bampot
Have a nice day ye all and peace and prayers to yous whit are troubled of mind.
Slán
Agat
Uilliam
Well said. Couldn’t agree more. In fact, so much of music is, at its source, peasant music. All this Riverdance and Titanic stuff is mere Broadway/Hollywood inspired window dressing. Clapton playing Crossroads, McCormack singing Danny Boy, it’s all the same.
This is probably a question without a single correct answer, but I want to ask it anywho. Should a beginner focus on a keyless chanter first and become comfortable with that before exploring a keyed chanter?
Makers usually leave the mounts on so that keys can be added later. A beginner may not wish to go to the expense of 5/6 keys at the very beginning.
I have a fully chromatic chanter and I use all the keys regularly (playing tunes in A, Dmin, backing songs in F or EMaj, etc.). It takes a lot of practice to become fluid.
The only difference (apart from the extra notes) is a little extra weight on the chanter (it is noticeable to me).
One thing about notebending though.
I have only the Cnat and Fnat keys and I find the Fnat key very effective in bending the note by opening the key slowly and closing it slowly as well.
Rob
On my chanter the F natural in both octaves is only in tune with the chanter off the leg (on the leg the F is rather flat).
This is actually a good thing because I can hit the F with the chanter on the leg then slowly lift to get a nice bend up to an in-tune F natural.
It sounds plain or lacking in expression when I hear pipers who have chanters that the F is in tune on the leg play F: the note just suddenly happens and there’s no bend/change of pitch.
Most of the notes that you will ever need can be accomplished by a technique called “cross fingering” (you’ll learn more about that later as you gain skill), so yes, I think a keyless chanter perhaps may be a better learning stick than a more expensive keyed stick… just an opinion however.
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but I’d like to know how to cross-finger F and Bb. You see, I found a way to play that last segment of “Hymn of the Sea” on my low D whistle by cross-fingering those notes, and it’d be great if I could practice cross-fingering those on my Paki-chanter (don’t ask 
) until I recieve my Daye-set.
Btw, does anyone know if there is a cross-fingering chart somewhere on the web? That’d be lovely to have! 
Here’s some finger charts from Brian Howards site.
RORY
Thanks Rory! However, I get a “the page could not be found” message when clicking on most of the links at the site 
Cross-fingering is not normally useful for “chromatic” notes other than C natural. Occasionally you’ll find a chanter that offers one or two more, but it is not often done and would not be considered a core, or even “traditional”, skill. The usual technique for playing these notes is by “half-holing”, and even players with keyed chanters often choose to play F natural this way rather than use the key.
Given your situation (oddball Pakistani chanter of unknown playability), putting any sort of effort into cross-fingering doesn’t make sense to me.
If I may be so bold, I would suggest that given your geographical distance from the (Irish) tradition, it is especially important to do things the “traditional” way if you want to gain skill and insight into uilleann piping. Also, the “C” word[] will put a lot of people off 
[] Celtic[/size]
Does it really matter if it’s traditional or not? For me it’ll be a core skill, as I’ll be playing music that requires it!
I only use it for fingering practice, as it is unplayable.
I suppose that depends on your goals. I think it’s important to realize when you’re operating outside the tradition, and respect the differences. If you don’t start out from the foundation skills viewpoint then you are cutting yourself off from the community’s primary resources.
Further, even though you may eventually “play the uilleann pipes”, you will not be acknowledged as an “uilleann piper” if you don’t have an understanding and appreciation for the roots of the instrument.
[quote=“billh”]
Given your situation (oddball Pakistani chanter of unknown playability), putting any sort of effort into cross-fingering doesn’t make sense to me.
[/quote]I only use it for fingering practice, as it is unplayable.
Then it really makes no sense, because cross fingerings are not standard at all, they depend on the individual chanter (and probably even the reed). Learning them off a chart is quite useless, especially if the chart is from one maker and your (awaited) instrument is from another.
That shouldn’t be a problem for me since I’m a dyed-in-the-wool hibernophile. If I don’t have that, then I don’t know who has. I mean, just because I’ll be playing “non-traditional music” (like “Hymn of the Sea”, as mentioned earlier, or celtic music that I’ve composed myself) doesn’t mean I don’t know of the instrument’s roots. That’s like telling a jazz-musician that he dosen’t have understanding and appreciation for the roots of the saxophone just because he doesn’t use it to play military band music (as it was intended) 
Never really thought about it that way. I guess the best thing to do is to ask David about his chanter’s cross-fingering capabilities. He should have a clue. Thanks for pointing it out!
Does it matter that you will not be playing trad music? Not really, to me it just means your a musician, not an Irish trad musician. The Irish pipes (or whatver you like to lable them) are just another instrument developed from other pipes and no doubt throughout their lifespan have been used to play a great deal of music other than Irish trad.
People often get very caught up in thier instruments (especially pipers) and lose sight of what is actualling going on. The pipes are just another medium in which to converse in the language of music. In this case, predominatley Irish trad.
Without putting words into Bill’s mouth (or getting the wrong jist) if you learn the insturment outside of the ‘tradition’ (geography should have no real bearing on this with the wonders of modern technology) ie: learn odd tunes, classical pieces, jazz fusion Bootsy Collins funkedelic crossover, you are not learning a ‘language’ in which you can converse with other Irish trad musicians.
I don’t know how to cut and paste, but Bill’s on the money “know your goals”, its just like your analogy, you’ll be playing the sax (pipes), but you won’t be a jazz (ITM) musician. That neither makes it right or wrong.
For me the importance of playing pipes is 1) the enjoyment of conversing with other irish musicians, 2) actively participating in a family link with a living tradition and 3) having a legitimate cultural reason to sit in a pub, drink pints and talk about things my wife doesn’t give a boiled sh**e about, such as humidty/cane issues.
Not sure if the above has much to do with cross fingering.
Liam
Agreed! I mean, just look at the Greek bouzouki. I saw a video on YouTube recently in which a man was playing an Irish bouzouki. When I read the comments section, this comment from an angry Greek caught my eye, and I quote:
“wt* is this? irish bouzouki? bouzouki is an 100% greek musical instrument, and that’s not the way to use it or the music it is supposed to make”
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4f7voIo-XU
True! They should know what some Greek people think about ITM’s “Grand theft instrument”
Yes, I think I’ll miss out some pretty usable terms and playing techniques by going “rogue piper”. I hope to learn them anyway, however
The wisdom in your post makes up for that