I’ve only owned cheapie whistles, Gens and Sweetones etc, and they seem to favor the OXXXOX or OXXXOO fingerings for C natural. I am used to these fingerings, on the few tunes that I know and they seem to work OK.
It seems that I hear a lot of the upper end whistles favor the OXXOOO fingering for C nat, and that they get a strong, clear tone with this fingering. My question is, supposing I buy an upper end whistle, will this OXXOOO fingering ultimately be a boon to quicker playing or will it be something that really just is an adjustment, and ultimately is neither a plus nor a minus, just different.
When I say my whistles favor the OXXXOX fingering, I really mean that I favor it, as my whistles are (as far as I know) inanimate objects, and are incapable of expressing, and or indeed even having an opinion on such matters.
On some middle end and high end whistles (Hoover, Sindt, et al) Cnat has to be half-holed. I’m not sure if they’d work on your preferred fingering, as I use OXX OOO no matter what. I learned with OXX OOO so it’s not a problem for me.
You should be aware that some high-end whistles that are tuned for one-handed fingering will not tolerate the two-handed fingering you have got used to, giving you a note that is horribly flat.
Examples are Susato and Water Weasel. I suspect there are lots of others I haven’t tried. I consider this a departure from traditional fingering and therefore, as far as I’m concerned, a defect. You want to be able to swap back and forth between whistles without worrying about this kind of thing.
Other maker’s whistles seem to be able to give you a good C-nat using either fingering. Examples: Overton, Reyburn high D, Alba (the old Bb I tried, anyway). This is the way makers should be going IMO.
The Sindt D and some Harpers (G and A that I know of) like OXXXXO for the Cnat. I can switch back and forth from that to the two-finger, but have trouble with the forked fingering favored by StevieJ. A lot of flutes like OXOXXX, which I also have trouble with. For faster tunes, you can really get away with using one that’s a little off, but for slower tunes, it’s really noticeable. Many whistles also will sound a G# in the lower octave with XXOXXX, but a Bb in the upper octave.
I guess the final answer is to half-hole, since it is fully compatible with every whistle. I have enough to worry about, though, just trying to play with a single cross-fingering.
I don’t know about the Sindts, but my Hoovers do best with the
OXX XOX fingering for Cnat.
As for the others, it varies. Of the whistles I have, the ones that favor
OXX OOO include the Elf Songs, the Busman, the Susatos and the Dixon. The others, including two Hoovers, two Generations, two Feadogs, an Oak and a Waltons, all favor OXX XOX. I guess the best answer is, learn both fingerings well, and be ready to switch depending on what the whistle you’re currently playing favors. Sounds complicated, but really it’s not…I switch back and forth all the time.
I find that my Generations play best with only low to moderate breath pressure. There is a “sweet spot” where the tone is clearest and the octaves are best in balance.
When blown at that pressure, especially in faster pieces, I don’t find an audible difference between ( o x x | o o o ) and (o x x | x o x ).
I can still get cleaner C-natural rolls from the ( o x x | o o o ) fingering on most whistles.
I have been making my prototype whistles so that they play C-natural OXXOOO, but I have to agree with StevieJ that this is a departure from traditional fingering… although I know some people will argue just the opposite!
While OXXOOO may be a bit faster and easier than OXXXOX, I like being able to switch between C-natural and D with the flick of a single finger… and you just can’t do that with a whistle designed to play C-natural OXXOOO.
I have drawn the conclusion that people like me and Mr. Jones are of the minority though, and that most whistlers prefer OXXOOO over OXXXOX.
I personally have never played a whistle that played C-natural properly with both fingerings… OXXXOX is always a bit flatter than OXXOOO.
Perhaps the best solution where my whistles are concerned, would be to offer your choice of fingerings for C-natural when ordering… but I’d better shut up before this post starts looking like a commercial pitch, rather than just my 2¢ worth on the subject!
I should have also mentioned (though it isn’t always the case) that most whistles designed to cross-finger C-natural OXXXOX have a larger C# hole than those designed to play it OXXOOO.
A larger C# hole permits a significantly easier blown, and more in tune 2nd octave C#… it also makes half-holing C-natural easier than on whistles with a smaller C# hole.
Given the fact that there will be times when you will want to half-hole C-natural rather than cross-finger it, plus the easier and more in tune 2nd octave C#, plus the ability to switch from C-natural to D with the simple flick of just one finger, there is no question in my mind which fingering is superior to the other… but I still think I’m in the minority!
Thanks Raindog for your sympathetic outlook on the fingerings issue. And thanks for any and all posts on thus subject. I was busting Chiff Fipple’s chops on this very issue not long ago, look here for my post. http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=14845 hmm, why isn’t this showing upa as a link? oh well. Cool, now it’s working.
This was before I knew who Chiff Fipple was. He He he, whatever. :roll:
As I am still quite unitiated in the wilds of upperendom, and scarcely know enough tunes to entertain a class of kindergardners during milk and cookie break. I will probably buy a more expensive instrument withe the OXXOOO persuasion and I will either like it or not!
Raindog, I may order a OXXXOX’er, (now that’s what I call customer service) if I can’t get used to the other way that is. Maybe you can call it the Triple X Zero X and attract a whole nuther crowd to the whistle!
My fingering for Cnat doesn’t depend on the whistle at all. It depends entirely on the tune. On slow tunes I find half-holing to be more expressive. On fast tunes the fingering is entirely dependent on what will get me from the note before it to the note after it most smoothly. My whistles are all reasonably tolerant with all sorts of funky ways of getting Cnats.
Either that, or my ear is so crappy it can’t tell much of a difference.
For the life of me I can only think of one tune with a 2nd octave c-sharp in it, though, Sean se Cheo.
It makes sense another way as well…it seems that whistle fingerings tie back to simple system flute fingerings pretty closely. On a Baroque flute, for instance, ( o x x | o o o ) gives a really strong, well-voiced C-natural. On the same Baroque flute, you’d never finger 2nd octave C-sharp with all fingers up; you’d finger it like this ( o x x | x o x ) and open the D-sharp key.
I wonder which instrument came first, simple system flute or simple system whistle?
now it’s working.