One of the things I found in my recently unearthed music stuff box (my old roommate hid it in self defense) is Geraldine Cotter’s Traditional Iris Tin Whistle Tutor. This copy dates back to the dark ages before tutorials came with CDs, so I’m thinking about getting the CDs to go with it, 'cos it’s kind of useless to me without 'em. OTOH I’m disabled & on a fixed income, so I need to spend very carefully here, so I want more info.
I’ve googled around, and most places carry a “demo CD” to go with the tutorial, plus a “100 tunes” pair of CDs. So I have 2 sets of questions:
Demo CD: What-all is she demo-ing on this? How to play individual notes, the tunes in the front tutorial section of hte book, ornamentation, what? Could someone who has it let me know what’s on it, so I know how much I’d benefit from owning it?
Tunes CDs: OK, so the tunes in the back of the tutorial seem to be the same tunes in the “green book”, which I got from the library, and I assume these are the tunes on the pair of CDs. Are they all played on whistle? Just whistle, or whistle and/or other instruments? I’m wondering because the “green book” appears to be for whatever instrument one brings to sessions…
Hi Squidgirl! The Geraldine Cotter tutorial was actually the one I started on! I picked it up in Ireland when I was over there a couple of years ago. I liked it, although a lot of people on the board would probably say that Grey Larson’s material is better.
When I bought the book, it came with the Demo CD. I’ve been trying to track down the tunes CD, but haven’t been able to so far (well, I haven’t tried very hard ) I’ll check out the link you included in your post though.
Demo CD: What-all is she demo-ing on this? How to play individual notes, the tunes in the front tutorial section of hte book, ornamentation, what? Could someone who has it let me know what’s on it, so I know how much I’d benefit from owning it?
The Demo CD is actually an accompanyment to the first part of the book. There’s a track for each chapter. It includes narratives and demonstrations about how to perform the various techniques she is teaching (cuts, rolls, tonguing and the like). Also, she plays each tune that is included in the front of the book. She does a slow and fast version of each.
If you are new to the whistle, and wanting to learn from Geraldine Cotter, I would say it’s absolutely essential to get your hands on at least the demo CD. As anyone on this board will tell you, to properly learn the whistle in particular, and Irish Trad in general, you must listen listen listen! Irish music cannot be notated completely. There’s key elements that you cannot pick up from the sheet music.
Good luck and feel free to post any questions you have…there’s lots of good folks on this board who enjoy helping other whistlers.
Doh! It’s weird how googling on someone’s name won’t necessarily find you their website…
Long, long ago I started with the Robin Williamson book (which I appear to have lots along the way), and an extremely shrill and cantankerous whistle (thankfully also long lost). This time I’ve been using the Bill Ochs tutorial from our local library and some much mellower Clarke whistles, and things are going much better this time around – having the tape to go with the book makes all the difference, as does having non-piercing whistles to practice on (I just spent a whopping $3 on a Meg, which I’d read are inconsistent, but the luck of the draw gave me an excellent on this time – much better than my out-of-tune Sweetone!)
although a lot of people on the board would probably say that Grey Larson’s material is better.
I’ve also been scrimping & saving to pick that one up, so I’m not sure whether to go for that, or buy the demo CD to go with the Cotter book I already have (cheaper, & I’m poor).
I’ve been trying to track down the tunes CD, but haven’t been able to so far (well, I haven’t tried very hard > > ) I’ll check out the link you included in your post though.
The Demo CD is actually an accompanyment to the first part of the book. There’s a track for each chapter. It includes narratives and demonstrations about how to perform the various techniques she is teaching (cuts, rolls, tonguing and the like).
Pretty good explanations and demos?
As anyone on this board will tell you, to properly learn the whistle in particular, and Irish Trad in general, you must listen listen listen! Irish music cannot be notated completely. There’s key elements that you cannot pick up from the sheet music.
I’ve noticed this for sure. My latest strategy (remarkably successful) has been lying in bed each night listening to the songs I plan to learn the next day, playing that section of the tape or CD over and over until I fall asleep. I seem to digest it while sleeping, and wake up with the music ready to flow into my fingers.
Long, long ago this is the one I started with too. I’m assuming ‘lots’ = ‘lost’, and if so, that’s a bit of a shame. I really like many of the versions he’s got.
FWIW, I’ve found the Grey Larson book more helpful than the Cotter one. Or, more accurately, I’ve found the Cotter book more useful after Larson. However, the most helpful thing about Larson, for me, were the exercises. These aren’t in the book. You can download them from his site for around $3.50. It’s possible the exercises + Cotter CD may work well in terms of value & economy.
Again FWIW, I’ve had great experiences ordering from the Whistle Shop. I would recommend them without hesitation.
The explanations on the CD very little from the text in the book. In some places the explanation is much shorter than the text, in others there’s a little elaboration on the text. I found the value of the Demo CD to be being able to hear the music/lesson/tune being played.
I remember liking it at the time, and had been really hoping it was in the recently-unearthed box of music books. But alas, no such luck.
However, the > most > helpful thing about Larson, for me, were the exercises. These aren’t in the book. You can download them from his site for around $3.50.
I saw those when browsing around his site, and was curious. Could you tell me a bit more about what they’re like?
Don’t know if you were able to get more info already, but I do have the Cotter Tunes CD. I don’t have any other tutors, so I can’t really comment on this one versus others, but I do think the tunes CD is a great resource. It’s not easy finding 100 songs, recorded with good sound equipment, with tin whistle alone. No offense, Clips & Snips! Actually, C&S is probably a richer resource in the long term, partially because the Ms. Cotter’s recordings aren’t always top-notch. She sounds like a good player to me, but not a great one, and some of the tunes sound like they could have used another take (the occasional mistake, squawk, or botched rhythm).
BTW, I bought mine in Killarney, same place I bought my first whistle (a Susato I never play).
Geraldine Cotter is one of the best whistle player I’ve heard in my life, with a lovely style and tasty phrasing, and having listened to Mary Bergin a lot in sessions, I’d say their style, at least in sessions, isnt so different.
The only thing about her tunes CDs, which I have, is that it’s out of tune, I’m sure it’s been transferred from tape to CD with a slightly different speed. Anyway, to play along those CDs you’ll need a D whistle which you can flatten quite a bit.
Could you please point me out to the tune/tunes which have botched rythm? I’d be quite interested to hear that, I actually don’t believe this and I’ll need to hear it myself.
Sure, I’ll try to do that for you, but it might be a couple of days before I can find the time to go through the whole thing. What I remember was a couple of times where she dragged a figure. I also should say that my experience with ITM is limited. I’m a jazz bassist, and metronomic accuracy is important to me; those figures didn’t sound “laid back”, but just “slow”. But it’s not like she left out an eighth note or anything.
I’m glad to hear she’s a really good player, though–I do really enjoy working from her tutor, and I sometimes listen to the tunes CD just for enjoyment. It isn’t the most polished set of recordings I’ve heard, though. Do you believe the playing on that CD to be top notch, or up to Ms. Cotter’s standards?
I agree about the tuning, BTW–that CD is what led me to doing the hot water trick with my Generation.
Yeah, the tune Lucy Campbell (track 28, I think, I’m listening to my mp3ed copy) has a squeak right at the beginning, and a badly dragged rhythm after about 7 or 8 seconds. What do you think?
Also on track 37, “The Plains of Boyle/Chief O’Neill’s”, start listening at about 1:20, and you’ll hear the end of a phrase get messed up at about 1:25.
The next tune, “Off to California”, has some similar problems. Listening through the CD, it almost sounds like she recorded it at one sitting, in the same order as the final track listing, and was getting tired towards the end.
But most of the playing is really nice! I just wanted to be sure I wasn’t crazy with my earlier comments.
I downloaded the Toolbox Exercises for Finger Coordination. I think I saw a review on this board of Larson’s Whistle book where the reviewer mentioned that the exercises were pretty good. The exercises don’t seem like much to look at. You download 38 sound files & a .pdf document. The sound files are of the individual exercises, each somewhere around 30 secs long. The .pdf contains the text & written notation for the exercises.
The stated purpose of the exercises is to help you improve your finger coordination. This is both why the exercises appear not so exciting and why they’re great. If you believe the only way to improve your tune playing is to play tunes, then this approach isn’t for you. My experience, however, was that my tune playing became much smoother & more confident as a result of practicing the exercises. I feel I spend less time & energy concentrating on twiddling correctly when I’m learning vs. just playing the tune.
I suppose the Toolbox exercises correspond to doing scales on a piano or something. In these exercises you’re only practicing/drilling finger combinations - nothing vaguely tune-like happens. You start with ridiculously easy combinations and before you know it you’re being challenged without quite sure how you got there.
You also practice breath control. It’s a natural outcome of working different not combinations. And as an added bonus, you’re also practicing sight-reading & timing. (For those who eschew sight-reading, you can read the intro/explanatory material on the .pdf and otherwise work exclusively from the audio files.) The sound files are set up so one channel/speaker has the whistle, the other has the metronome. None of the finger-work is all that fast, but the time value of the notes does vary (quarter, half, full notes), and in my case at least this allowed a better sense to timing to sink into my bones.
I found the exercises to be an incredible value. Every time I use them my wife notices improvement in my playing - even when I don’t. And I promise, she’s not saying so just to be kind & supportive. She is kind & supportive, but she wouldn’t say there’s improvement when there isn’t any.
Jeff, thanks for pointing out the tunes. I’ve listened to Lucy Campbell and well, I really can’t see what’s wrong with her rythm. I’m no theory expert, but I found out I could tap the foot while listening to her playing without getting lost.
But anyway, it’s well known that most ITM doesnt need to be metronome perfect to be enjoyed (I tend to speed up, I’ve got my own problems!). As long as you can get the feel of the rythm, and dancers can dance without losing a beat, and feel they’re slowing down or accelerating, I suspect it’s good enough.
The thing you need to pay attention to when you listen to ITM is the phrasing. I mean, Geraldine Cotter’s phrasing is what amazes me.
Thanks for taking a listen. That’s the “test” I used, too, and I found I had to “adjust my foot” to stay with her. But hey, let’s just disagree!
Great points! Now I sound like a technique fetishist who’s being reminded of what’s important in music. But as I said earlier, I do enjoy the music on the CD, and I’m sure you’re right, that I’ll come to appreciate it more as I gain experience. For now, I’ll just be mildly annoyed with a few tracks.
First, I’ve gotta know – what on earth is that creature in your avatar?
And thanks for the detailed description – that definitely sounds like something I’d be interested in. For some reason, I find it far less stressful to practice stuff like this in isolation, just as finger exercises floating in space, than to have to stumble out of tune-learning mode into frustrating fingering mode.
For example, I’m one of those people who find it quite soothing to work on stuff like scales, arpeggios, going up and down the notes of various chords, etc – the chord work has been particularly rewarding because later I run into the same patterns in tunes and think “Aha! I recognize you!!” But I’m finding that I like music theory in general – it triggers the same pattern-recognition circuits that made me enjoy studing abstract math.
Up till now I’ve been creating my own exercises by stopping whenever my fingers trip over some section of a tune, and copying that series of notes into a attractive little staff-paper notebook I’ve dedicated to collecting troublesome phrases. When I’m in finger training mood, I repeat each of these finger-tangling phrases ad nauseam, and the rewarding thing is how nice & easy the older ones become as I work through my collection from beginning to end.
I’m one who doesn’t enjoy exercises of the scale/arpeggio/interval sort–I don’t hate 'em, but simply can’t bring myself to practice them as much as I should. Instead I try to find snippets of tunes (one or two beats or a bar), and play them in a loop, or sequence them through a scale, or add a little variation to make them loopable. The melodic value of those exercises keeps my ears interested enough to play them long enough to have value.
Strangely, I love math, and could do calculus problem sets all day if I didn’t have other interests, too.
Oh, another practicing trick I like, that my classical bass teacher showed me: play a piece/tune through to get a feel for it, but then practice “backwards”, playing the last two bars until they’re solid, then add the previous two, and so on. That way, as you get the tune under your fingers, you’ll end each runthrough with success (i.e., sounding good) rather than failure, and you won’t suffer from the common syndrome of having the ending of a piece be the weakest part.
) I’ll check out the link you included in your post though.