So I’ve been working on Maid Behind the Bar for a while and the B part is just kicking my butt. I can play it slow but I can’t get it up to session speed and have it sound good. So, I’m throwing this out to the hive mind of C&F, what’s your arrangement like?
Here’s the tune:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/64
Bars 4 & 5 of the B part are my problem areas. Do y’all drop a note or two? Which ones are expendable?
Thanks for any help.
Eddie
It’s really a fiddle tune. I think Matt Molloy does it in the black album, in case this helps.
Here’s the version i play (just slightly different from thesession.org, but maybe it will agree with you more?):
X:8
T:Maid Behind the Bra, The
T:Green Mountain, The
R:reel
S:SessionTunes.abc (John B. Walsh)
Z:Vancouver, Boston
Z:In O’Neill’s as the Green Mountain, with a bit different setting.
M:C|
K:D
AG | FAAB AFED | FAAB A2 de | fBBA Bcde | f2 gf edBA |
FAAB AFED | FAAB A2 de | fBBA BcdB | AFEF D3 
e | fgag fdde | fdad fd d2 | efga beef | gebe ge e2 |
faaf bfaf | defd e2 de | fBBA BcdB | AFEF D3
The leading note to the second part (the e) gives me trouble sometimes. Usually i leave it off from the first time around, use it only in the repeat.
A very common idiom for when you have these notes that add up to the equivalent to 3 8th notes, is to replace them with a roll. So instead of e e2 in the bar you’re having trouble with, it could be ~e3.
It’s very important to practice this tune slow.
This tune has a very similar feel to the Silver Spear, and often the 2 get mixed up. I see them as a set often too.
X:55
T:The Silver Spear
R:reel
S:Conal O’Grada, Scoiltrad
M:C
L:1/8
K:D
F ~A3 BAFA | dfed BcdA | F ~A3 BAFA | dfed (3BcB A |
F ~A3 BAFA | dfed (3Bcd ef | ~g3 e ~f3 e | dfed (3BcB A2
|: f ~a3 bfaf | gfed Bcde | f ~a3 bfaf | gfed (3BcB A2 |
f ~a3 bfaf | gfed (3Bcd ef | ~g3 e ~f3 e | dfed (3BcB A2
g
P.S.: if you don’t have ABC software, try this:
http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html
I play Maid Behind the Bar just like Glauber (although I remove all reference to women’s apparrel from the title 
). Interestingly enough, I also play Silver Spear just the same…common source somewhere along the line or proof of convergent musical evolution?
I think playing Maid like they have it over at the Session on flute would be an exercise in frustration…
Eric
Hehe… and for a really cool swinging version of Silver Spear on fiddle, check out John Carty’s second album (“Still At It”). It’s called (mistakenly) Silver Spire there. He also has a slightly different version in his first album (“Last Night’s Fun”). John Carty rocks! And he plays flute too.
I think Silver Spear is a lot easier on the flute/whistle than Maid (once you get the hang of the A rolls – not to be confused with a-holes, oh i kill me!). Anyway, i hear it’s much harder to play on the fiddle because of string crossings. So it’s a good tune to play when you want to punish those fiddlers a little.
[NOTE: I started writing this huge and complicated post explicating the rather strange combinations of short rolls I use, but decided it just wasn’t making sense. SO, here’s the saner version; you can thank me for sparing you later ]
The good news is, Eddie, MBTB is right up there with the Kesh Jig on Irish Music’s Top 100. Which means there are at least a hundred different versions of it. So if it was me, I’d probably try another site like ceolas.org (henrik norbeck’s stuff is usually nice and neat) or irishtunes.net for starters, just to see if there are some alternatives that suit your fingers better. Is it in Grey’s book? I’m pretty sure it’s in McCulloch’s 121 Session Tunes (or whatever it’s called) …
Anyway, there are a ton of ways to play it. Oh, and don’t forget the value of making a triplet at the beginning of bar 4 – G(F)EBE instead of just GEBE. And in bar 5 I’ve seen/heard the first set of 8ths there played as FAAF instead of FGAF, which might sit easier for you …
Oh, heck, there I go again. So I think I’ll stick with my orginal advice … keep practicing and meanwhile, go alternative, young man! If nothing else you’ll have another variation for later.
Good luck!
I’ll tell you what I mix up … The Green Mountain and MBTB. Around here, they’re just a wee bit different, esp. in the B parts.
Thats funny because I have no problem with those two but real itentity issues with the Green Mountain and the Boys of the Lough. To the point that I have given up trying to play TBOTL completely as it always turns into TGM 
.
mat,
I’ve decided it’s because they all start with “The.” To prevent further “senior moments”, I shall from now on leave said offending article out.
You’re right though about ( ) Boys of ( ) Loch – I only half-know it (if even that), but part of the reason is due to the soundalike issue.
I have a lot of problems with that – just a stupid ear, I guess. To make matters worse, now that I’ve tried to explicate my approach to ( ) Maid (Lately I’ve taken to attacking it with a series of short rolls ala Roaring Mary’s B part), I’ve managed to mix THOSE two up in my head. And they’re even in two different keys!
I’m doomed.
Thanks for the replies, I’ll try a few of the variations out tonight.
oh for faster fingers. practice practice practice.
Eddie
here’s an interesting tidbit …
i’m not too familiar with ABC format, but when annotating rolls in tunes i find it’s important to realize when a roll starts on the beat and covers 3 1/8 notes in jigs (but also happens in reels too), it is considered a long roll (a3); when the roll starts off the beat, typically with reels, its more like (aa2) which would be playing the note ‘a’ and then followed by a short roll on ‘a2’.
so for example, in the reel " the silver spear" , faa2 would be more accurate than fa3. the note ‘f’ starts on the beat and ‘aa2’ is off the beat. ‘a3’ doesn’t fit the rhythm in this case as it is indicating a long roll but what actually needs to happen is ‘aa2’. i find this is a common mistake i have made in many written tunes and found teachers and players make it too. it can lead to a little confusion to anal-retentive types like myself. but it does lends itself to creating proper rhythm in tunes.
Either way works, Rama. You can use it as a variation. In Silve Spear, f~a3 is the usual way (f, a cut a tap a). It’s funny, but notes have a tendency to group by threes in Irish music, even when it’s not on the downbeat.
You can do
f ~a3 (roll)
f a a a (triplet)
f a3 (no roll, use finger vibrato instead)
f a2 a
f a z a (drop the middle a)
etc…
I’m so glad y’all brought this up; it’s something I’ve actually been wrestling with a bit lately re: 3 repeated 8th notes on certain reels. Sometimes things flow just fine with short rolls, but sometimes they seem to need something … more. So lately I’ve found myself (as a variation) throwing off a short roll and adding an extra tap or bounce after. Apparently this a no-no … but sometimes, when it works, it sounds really cool to me. Then again, it all depends on the roll, the reel, and the speed – because other times it’s Wipeout City!
Anyway, enough of that. While I’m finding – as glauber says – you can often go either way, I’ve also run into the long roll?/short roll?/huh? issue – ie., the one rama writes about – a LOT in sheet music and agree it’s a bit of a snare for folks, especially when your rhythm or timing aren’t solid. As usual, I think it’s a question of being comfortable with the tune and all the tools and then figuring out which is right for the job, but the way rolls are indicated in much sheet music can indeed trip me up, and often does!
[Grey Larsen has tackled this in his book. I’m still trying to get the symbols right, but I think he’s onto something. ]
P.S. Fooled around with a convoluted MBTB B part last night – short rolls all over the place plus an occasional long one – and it’s kind of interesting. I think they have to be used wisely – I’m waaay over the top with them right now – but it’s a fun exercise.
I dunno, I’ve seen it done before by excellent players. Is heresy rife, then?
well unfortunately, i think you both are missing my point, or perhaps i’m not doing a good job of explaining it. but as i said, it’s a common mistake in notating tunes.
A3~
… represents a rhythm much like “yawh-de-dah” where more emphasis is on the first part of the roll. irrespective, play it and tap your foot and you’ll see it always starts on the downbeat. correct? so by putting a note before it like FA3~ , and the down beat remains on the A3 and not on the F where it needs to be in a reel, then the rhythm is out. in order for A3 ~ to show up in a reel, it has to be on the downbeat , never preceded by a note but always succeeded by a note like: A3~F.
so FA3~…not good for reels, A3~F… good for reels.
AA2~
… play this and tap your foot. does it not start “off the downbeat”? so it really needs a note to precede it to get the beat going much like FAA2~. it therefore lends itself well to a reel rhythm where the downbeat needs to occur on the F.
agreeably, variations are a great thing, as long as you know what it is you are doing and how to do it.
Hi Eddie,
The way I play those bits, bar 4 and 5 in the second part, is
efga Be~e2|gebe ge~e2|
That’s not too bad to do. When I first learned it I just left off the rolls and
did this:
efga Bee2|gebe gee2|
(Between the 2 e’s, just pick up your top hand ring man for a cut.)
Not sure I’m following the other queries in this thread, but when I write
Be~e2 I dont’ know what its called, a roll of some sort, its
Be{cut}e{strike}e. Which lands the beat on the cut of the 3rd beat in
the bar, I mean, the maid behind the bar..
cheers Lesl
Rama, i think i get it now. I think you’re right, and also think it’s an academic point.
An a followed by a short roll on a (a~a2) involves the same finger movements as a long roll (~a3). Some people may argue that the second note gets stressed instead of the first, some people may say the 3 are equal. In the end it’s 2 ways to notate the same thing, and most people notate Irish music in a simple way, i.e. the ~ symbol can be a long or short roll, the roll itself can be 3 equal notes or slow/fast/fast, etc. Maybe Grey Larsen will change this, but we’ll see. But it’s ok to notate it a~a2 if you want to.
g
publications of written music like o’neils, breandan breathnac’s, mally’s etc. never notate FA3~ in reels , it’s always FAA2~ or A3~F.
if mr. larsen understands how to notate rolls in reels he will have done it in the same correct manner as well.
it would be alot easier for me to demonstrate the difference in a soundclip. you would hear the obvious difference and therefore it’s importance.
Dude, like, whatever!
g
Hello, Cookie Monster, if you’re still listening, i came across this CD called “Have ye This One?” which has the Maid. If you go to this URL, there are sound samples there of how Skip plays it, slow, fast and faster. Sheet music too.
http://www.skiphealy.com/frames/fr_cd_hyto.htm
Yikes, you now, this is embarrasing but I picked up that CD/book set last Oct. Forgot that tune was in there. This weekend I hope to have an hour or so free and go through the variations folks have suggested and the book.
Thanks for all the comments.
Eddie