I need to learn this tune next and want to know what the easiest way of cutting that first C# would be, taking into account that it’s followed by a B and it’s played fairly fast at our session. At the moment I’m trying the cut like this but I’m finding it awkward to get quickly back to the B after effectively “Tapping” those two fingers down fast to get a cut sound.
ooo xxo
oxx xxo
ooo xxo
Can anyone think of an easier way of playing this first bar with a cut or even a tap, but would prefer a cut sound. I don’t mind if this is the only way I’ll just have to work on it.
Most of the old-time flute and whistle guys didn’t cut or tap C# and would find a melodic way around it, or take a breath, or whatever. Of course it follows that they didn’t roll C# either.
I think if the old-time guys were to play this they would do something like
|C#eC# ’ C#BA| or |C#BC# ’ C#BA| or |C#dC# ’ C#BA|
rather than play a long C# to start the first bar. In other words, rather than a roll, put some other note in the middle to take up the same timing as a roll. The ’ stands for a tongued articulation.
Or bend up to a long C# |C#3 ’ C#BA| or take a breath |C#(breath)C# ’ C#BA|
or fancier to do a triplet [C#deC# ’ C#BA| or {C#ABC# ’ C#BA|
The flute/whistle/UP players in the session are probably doing one of the above. Now, if I were the only wind player and I was playing with a bunch of fiddlers who are all doing a big fat long roll on that initial C#, I would follow suit and do a C# roll
ooo xxx
oxx xxx
ooo xxx
xoo xxx
ooo xxx
but after the roll I’d probably just tongue the next beat.
Ok in light of the possibilities now open to me and what you’ve been saying, I think it’s best if I put this off till next week. See, the main melody player for this tune in our session plays small pipes, he’s a friend of mine from the St. Laurence O’Toole Pipe Band who incidentally just came 3rd in the world championships, you’d probably have heard of them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/music/worlds/2009/bands/st_laurence_o_toole/ . He’s due back tomorrow and we’ll be playing on Wednesday so I was hoping to have learnt this one by then and kinda surprise him. But I think at this stage I should wait and just ask him exactly what way he’s doing this bit, to me it just sounded like a long first C#.
Thanks for all those suggestions, they shall be added to my text file for options on the note C, I’ve already got some info in there about cuts and rolls on Cnat and c# but these are all new so much appreciated. TBH I still find both C’s the most annoying notes to deal with, sometimes they’re fine but often they crop up in a group of notes that seem to make the fingering very tricky for me.
They did GREAT at the Worlds, a third. For several years now nobody has been able to break that “top three” and congrats to them for pulling it off.
I watched the Worlds via live streaming on the internet, the first time the BBC has done.
Anyhow, if it’s a Highland pipe tune, different rules apply. Highland pipe jigs do often progress with long plain dotted eigthnotes unlike ITM which tend to do rolls in such situations.
Highland pipes have an almost completely different ornamentation system than ITM so you’ll have to follow, as you say, what your man is doing.
The Highland pipes do have a thing called a “G-D-E triplet” which in a jig take up the same time as an Irish “long roll” but sounds quite different: a “long roll” starts on a plain note, then has a cut, then has a pat. The Scottish G-D-E triplet has cuts on all three melody notes, as you might expect a G, then a D, then an E cut. (Except GHB players call them “gracenotes” not “cuts”.)
G-D-E triplets are played only on “low G”, “low A”, B, and C#.
That’s the tough thing about playing GHB tunes on a D whistle, you’ve got ALL those ornaments on C# which on a D whistle is a tough note to ornament. Were I to play with a GHB player (him playing Scottish smallpipes or Border pipes in A) on a regular basis I wouldn’t use a D whistle, rather I would probably make up an E whistle (so that I play in G but it comes out A) but with the G’s retuned to G natural. Then I could do the usual scope of ornaments on every required note.
Yeh they were saying that they were told there wasn’t much in it between the top three, so they are doing great at the moment. He also plays with the St. Lawrence Pipe Band Howth (our town) along with his father who I think is the pipe major and his cousin another piper who also plays in the trad band. Then there are 3 other brothers from a rock band that play with us in trad band. So I’ve a great bunch of lads around me for encouragement
We had to watch it live streaming on the BBC website too, thought it might have been on BBC1 or 2 Scotland but no luck.
Yes it would appear to be a long dotted eightnote then a cut, I’m still finding this tricky but at least it’s not a roll.
We have a couple of Shaw E whistles so might use them for future tunes but he now has a D chanter, the only problem he was saying that he couldn’t do C naturals on it??? I don’t know how pipes work at all, has to be a way around that. He could be just making excuses cause he’s always trying to get us to play in A
