Buying Highend Whistles

Whistle
21

Hi everybody


from my little experience about whistles and irish music I can say no much about high end whistle , anyhow I’d like to share my experience with cheap and high end whistles :

the first one I’ve bought was a Sweetone green whistle , wich I think it is a very nice whistle to start , and BTW it was the only option I had at that time !

Then … , I’ve discovered Chiff & Fipple , and after reading so many reviews , watch so many pictures of high end whistles , I’ve got the real addiction !

In more than one year I’ve got some high end and also less expensive whistles !

My first so called high end whistle was an Alba Q1 , wich honestly I did played just few times , I think it is a very well made whistle but honestly speaking it’s not what I’m looking for !

After that I’ve bought also some wooden whistles , the first was a Wilson high D in blackwood (second hand), very nice whistle all around!
After that I’ve got a Busman PI high D , gorgeous whistle but not so easy to control in the begining , especially the high A and B ( it takes some time to get used to ), but them it’s fine !

Then I have also a Dixon plastic with brass tuning slide and a Trad in brass with delrin head , both very nice whistles , for a very affordable price especially the Trad wich is my favourite one on the inexpensive whistles world !

There also some other whistles I own , but there’s not need to mention them right now .

There are so many nice high end whistles out there , and my preference is certanly for wooden or delrin whistles , because the sound and looking !
I don’t know why but I don’t really like so much metal whistles !

What I’ve discovered so far is that high end whistles are for well experienced players and not for beginners like me , but you know , whoa is a problem for many people ! :smiley:

So I think begginers do not really need any high end whistles , there’re so many cheap whistles out there that sound very good !

As some other person said , it is very important the player , in fact owning a high end whistle do not mean that you’ll play and sound better than playing a cheap whistle ! I guess many time ( as a begginer) you sound better with a cheapy one !

What I’ve discovered so far with high end whistles is that every whistle is different , and so you must spend a lot of time with each one to find the best way to play it , blowing pressure , playing angle ( wich for me are the most important things ) , and other factors .

After all I’m very pleased with all my whistles , weell. most of them , so not complains at all , but if I have to suggest something to someone that want to buy his first whistle … GO FOR A CHAEPY , AND AFTER GETTING USED TO IT AND LEARN SOME TUNES , BUY A HIGH END WHISTLE OR TWO :stuck_out_tongue:

Otherwise you’ll end with too many whistles and never learn how to play properly one of them , perhaps that’s my case :blush:


All the best

Manuel

22

Great point there! Indulging our whoa is fun and satisfying, but it really is a bit of a time-waster.
Personally, I try but I’ve never been satisfied by the cheap whistles. If I were starting out today, I’d go straight to the middle-priced “best buy”: A Jerry Freeman-tweaked Mellow-Dog C/D set. If I just HAD to move up, I’d buy a Burke. You can’t go wrong with either.

23

Dancer, that pic of my high whistle is a couple of years old and not the Session D. However it does look similar to that… hole pattern is different and of course the Session has a thicker walled tube.

Tony Higgins has a wonderful clip of the whistle being played by a fabulous musician, Pat O’Scannell. It’s on his Tin Whistle Tunes site under Slow Airs. Here’s a link to the clip http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/Audio/08-07/CollarboneOfHarePatO.mp3

Ronaldo

24

Very true, but at the same time it is easier to sound good even with moderate skill on a whistle that responds well and is in tune with itself - in other words one you don’t have to fight. This is also true with other instruments…

25

Rt. The trouble is that some cheap whistles are virtually
unplayable–unless you’re a pro, if then. The newbie actually
could benefit from something better.

I suspect (my suspicious nature) that the great cheap
whistle on the recording is often either a) the one in
50 that came off the production line really right, or
b) has been tweaked.

Crooked Tune’s suggestion of the Jerry Freeman
tweaked Generation is a very good one, IMO.

The thing one least wants is the newbie to end up
with an unplayable whistle. The danger of that
happening is significant.

26

Lots of good comments on the thread. I will say that there a fakes and knock-offs in whistle world. I’m holding an E flat whistle the I bought on e-bay as a Chieftian. I don’t have any Chieftian whistles, but I’m pretty sure Phil Hardy never handled this piece of junk. I believe it was made to decieve. I has a nice brushed aluminum look and sufficient heft. It also has a tunable head that falls off and is pretty much unplayable. It only cost me $20 or so. I learned a lot of lessons on this one.

27

edited to remove duplicate

28

I disagree with this reasoning. “Unplayable” is such a subjective term. If you start out on something that is easy to get a pleasing sound out of, say a Burke or a Sweetone, then after playing those for a year you would find a Feadog or Generation “unplayable”. I know, I was there once.

Fact of the matter is, though a newbie would probably be more encouraged to start off on one of these easy blowers and therefore be able to quickly get a pleasing sound out of it, starting on something a little tougher (or playing both) will teach you better habits and control. I’d highly recommend that you save yourself the $170 (or however many) bucks and just learn to play the whistle as it started out; a simple instrument. I’m not saying don’t ever buy an expensive whistle. Get a tweaked whistle or an expensive whistle or whatever as well but don’t make the mistake of thinking you can’t learn to play a cheap, off-the-shelf whistle well and don’t get into the habit of blaming the bad sounds on the instrument you’re playing.

The cheapie sound isn’t for everyone, I know, but I believe there is value that can come from taming a rough whistle that will carry over even into the way you play a hand-made quality instrument down the line. I know many people who bought a Burke (or pricey equivalent) as soon as they started and, as a result, their playing sounds very bland and unoriginal to me.

My advice:
Rather than letting yourself be limited by your instrument, take the time to find your own voice.

29

I see no cause and effect here. How is it that bland, unoriginal playing can be blamed on a quality instrument?

Mistified in California,

John

30

The instrument played very forgivingly and didn’t require the player to pay as close attention to their relationship to it (breathing technique, etc) as it would if they took the time to keep plugging away on their less expensive whistle.

Before too many people get defensive, I’m not saying anything bad about Burke whistles. I use them as an example because they are the most popular where I am. I’ve owned and enjoyed two Burkes that I sold recently only to fund a flute. My experiences with Michael as a whistle maker/seller was everything to write home about.

The bland playing isn’t being blamed on an instrument, but rather the player’s mistake of thinking that buying an expensive whistle is the quick fix to sounding better rather than learning to tame one or several quirky whistles. This approach isn’t for everyone; depends on the kind of whistler you want to be.

I’m not saying there is no such thing as a bad cheap whistle but I know that there are those who could make an “unplayable” Feadog or Gen sing better than someone with $200 bucks and the notion that their cheapie sounds bad because they aren’t using a “professional” instrument.

31

Gens and Feadogs. Feadogs and Gens. And Oaks sometimes.
Hey, why don’t you consider meg/sweetone a whistle?

I play Clarkes (for quite little time, in fact), and also find Gens unplayable. Am I doing something wrong?

32

My second whistle was a DASBT and i still own it. It’s a very beautiful and very expressive whistle when played well - just listen to Joannie Madden play a Burke if you have any doubts.

The issue here is “being played well”. Yes, you can get away with playing a Burke rather sloppily but you can also get away with playing a Gen or Feadog rather sloppily as well - they both sound pants when played like that. When both whistle are played well then both sound beautiful and very expressive.

I can see Straycats point that one can get away with a lot more sloppiness on a Burke than on a Gen and this can tend towards laziness on the part of the player - especially learners. But i don’t think it’s correct to seem to label every player that learned on or is aspiring to learn on a Burke as bland as this simply isn’t true. For every crap Burke player out there i’m sure you can find plenty of examples of crap Gen and Feadog players.

Turning the statistics around you will obviously find more better players who learned on Gens than on Burkes because the best players began playing before Burke whistles were ever made, Gens are also more in the price range of beginners and most children beginning whistle will begin with a cheapy too. But if you levelled the playing field and gave out as many Burkes to beginners as Gens then i reckon the Burkes would easily win the day for creating better whistlers.

33

(rant)
you know, this whole thing about cheap and high end whistles …

I actually spent about a week testing a hundred cheap whistles and graphing the results and posted the story here a while ago (short version here - http://www.ozwhistles.com/magen.htm ).

A little while later I got my hands on a few of the first high-enders I’d ever seen and took them (all made by a well-known US maker) to a local house-session of veteran players. I asked the whistlers amongst the crew to give them a try and sat back to listen.

You know, after reading a lot of stuff about these particular whistles on this forum, I was expecting to hear a competent but bland result. Nothing could have been further than the truth. After half an hour of the favourite cheapies, the high-enders jumped to life and took the session to a whole new level. Now I gotta stress that the 3 players (who were swapping them round and deciding their favourite) were all accomplished whistlers and ITM enthusiasts with years of devotion behind them - as a mug nOOb (who’s only been listening to ITM for 30 years) the difference in the music was remarkable (hence the remark). I can imagine experienced purists would have found a “yes but” in what happened - and sure, there’s room for that. These kind of comments should be listened to carefully as one is forming their own value. I can certainly accnowledge that a session-bore whistle might be a bit of an affront in the hands of a learner at an advanced session (here’s where a quiet cheapie might be a better choice).

Another one - I was priveleged enough to be allowed to attend a special session at a recent festival where the top local and international ITM artists had-at-it for hours before I had to crawl-away to collapse - during that time, many whistles were used. The one that completely shone above the rest in terms of consistency, sound, accuracy and articulation was a high-ender. Once again, that was according to my perception - a differnet high-ender got the notable accolade from the best whistler there.

Then again - listen to many of the great players - I see a lot of cheapies - I also see a lot of high-enders.

My personal experience is far from comprehensive, but the trend on it is clear: Cheap mass-produced whistles - yes, they work (mostly) - the ones used in serious work sseem to be one-in-hundred freaks or adjusted by players who know exactly what they want. They are perfectly acceptable instruments for learning and for most work, however, a high-end whistle may take away a lot of the uncertainty and need for peripheral skill - and in many cases also includes a service relationship with the maker.

Part of the magic of the pennywhistle is that the ticket-to-ride is within the grasp of most everyone, but the journey is endless. It would be a shame to jump-off at the first stop and say “it was a nice trip” - far better to go around the world a few times and even get the chance spend a few days at some nostalgic locations for “old-times-sake” :slight_smile: .

(/rant)

(Edited to remove brand-names - hope I got them all :slight_smile: )

34

I think Mitch sums it up pretty well.
I myself, playing whistle for around 30 years, have until recently turned up my nose at high-end whistles, perhaps in part because I usually see them in the hands of newbies. I stuck by my old tried-and-true heavily tweaked Generations for most keys except high D, for which I have a heavily tweaked Feadog I’ve been playing for over 20 years. It always seemed to me that these (mostly American) neo-whistle makers were always using some foreign (non-Irish) timbre as their tonal goal. They chased their own tails in circles trying to make a whistle that sounded like an Irish flute, or a Boehm flute, or a Native American flute, or a recorder, or a shakuhachi, in short anything OTHER than wanting a whistle to sound like a whistle.
Then I played a Burke. Wow, it sounded and performed like a whistle! That traditional Generation-style sound and action, but simply better in every way. Better intonation, smoother sound across the range, more even response, everything.
I don’t care about “price points”. If I pay $6 (like I did for my trusty D Feadog) or if I need to pay $1000, it’s all the same in the end- does the whistle do what it needs to do? The Burke in my way of thinking is not overpriced in the least, but is a bargain.
Now I have six Burkes and will surely end up getting more.

35

That is exactly my point.

I never said that and I don’t believe it to be true.

You all are not reading me correctly. Even after my disclaimer people are still defending Burke whistles. Again, I said nothing bad about Burke whistles and I said nothing to indicate that Burke whistles could not be played well or played expressively. I owned and enjoyed Burke whistels in the past and would still have them if I hadn’t been short on cash for a flute. One of the other great things about them is they’re easily had within a week should I want to order one again.
Along with the bland high end players I also know those who can really work a high end whistle to it’s full potential.
I am by no means an authority on the whistle and I’m certainly not a virtuoso but I do remember my days when I thought the day I received my first high end whistle in the mail it’d be the only one I ever needed and it would make me sound like a better whistler… and it did help me sound better. It did not help me play better though.
Most of you are missing what I’m saying completely. My point is not about what whistle is better and it’s not about which whistle is more traditional, more consistent, more (insert adjective here). This is about a mindset in a newbie whistler that they can only play well on an expensive whistle. It’s about how so many times when a noob posts here for the first time (or I’ve seen similar cases in sessions) talking about the fun they’re having with a Feadog or a Clarke, others are quick to suggest that they move up to a high end whistle instead of giving some helpful playing advice to make them better players.

breqwas:
I can’t speak for others but I don’t personally think that Megs/Sweetones are any less of a whistle. They’re certainly different in sound than the typical straight-bore whistles but I don’t understand why so many think they sound like toys. I played exclusively Clarkes for about two years (bought them at a local shop) before I discovered the many brands available online.

36

  1. Is their such thing as knock off/Fakes when it comes to tin whistle, if so how can I tell if it is a genuine article made by that specific craftsman?
    If you’re worried about knockoffs, buy from reputable stores or from the maker himself, rather than sites like Ebay.

  2. Do the high end whistles feel heavier and made of a thicker material? I have a Clarke that looks like a sheet of tin has been rolled and crimped into a tube and it weighs nothing.
    My alba high D is definitely more sturdy than my Clarke and my unknown brand very low end whistle. I can’t speak for all high end models, however. I’d assume that ones with tuning slides (like my alba) are likely to be heavier…

  3. Do the high end whistles sound cleaner and less toy like or is that an attribute that some brands or keys have?
    It is true that different makes will have different tone qualities, but I don’t know how much you can predict by price…Also, I’d assume the better you are, the better any whistle will sound, unless it is completely useless.

37

The Celtic Front Blown Fipple Flute manifests in diverse forms, material, and tones. As a musician I either know what sound I want or I try to discover new sounds. If I want to go retro (read Trad) I might go with a Clark, Feadog, et al; or nouveau; maybe a Low whistle from Overton, Copeland, MK, et al. Or any of an endless combination or rendition.

The whistles aren’t in a vacuum. They are just objects until a musician picks one up. It just comes down to what you want. So, do what you want. It’s not very complicated.

38

I believe I understood your point from the beginning. I just don’t agree (doesn’t make me right).

It is my belief that using quality equipment (skis, roller skates, etc. etc.) leads to more interest, more practice, more exploration.

I suspect that if your example people played the whistles you suggested, they would have been worse, not better than they are now.

…john

39

Well, having a good instrument can’t make you play better, but can encourage you to become better. When you play a chinese noname gutar for $40, you can think you play bad because of bad instrument. So, when you buy a good czech Strunal for $400 and find out that didn’t make you better, you’ll have to improve :))

40

Are the high-end whistles heavier or made of thicker material? That’s one of the things about my aluminum Burkes, they weigh almost nothing. It can be tiring to play a heavy instrument for long periods. About the possiblity of knockoffs, you can get most high-end whistles directly from the makers which absolutely assures genuineness. Oh course reputable dealers would not knowingly sell a knockoff. About a “toy-like” sound, different players prefer different sounds and what might sound “toylike” to one might sound legitimate to another. If by “toylike” is meant “Generation-like”, to me and to many other old-school whistle players the Generation sound was for many years THE de facto whistle sound. As stated above, I want a whistle that sounds like a whistle, not a Boehm flute, Irish flute, Native American flute, shakuhachi, recorder, or anything else. The Burkes, while sounding like a traditional whistle, do have a refined, pure, professional tone.