Burke Viper Low D review

…and finally the other requested review, the infamous Viper:

http://pipersgrip.50webs.com/BurkeViperD.html

…and if anyone can tell me what the name of the slow reel is that I played on the sound clip, I would appreciate it. I had a brain f*rt and forgot it! :blush:

Very interesting, thanks for posting that.

That review also made me realize that I have never broken down the Burke composite high D whistle that I got a couple of months ago. Guess I should do that… hmm, here’s hoping that I still have that instruction sheet that came with it!

When you say that the low E is weak, I feel the need to ask, compared to what other low D’s?
The low E is of course the Achilles’ Heel of low D’s. But when I did extensive testing of a number of low D’s side-by-side, the Burke was among the strongest. I carefully tested the “breaking point” of each whistle’s bottom D, low E, low F#, and low G. To me it’s annoying to try to play on a whistle on which the low E has a significantly lower “breaking point” than its neighbors D and F#. The Burke was FAR superior to the Copeland and MK I tested in this regard and about the same as the Overtons and Chieftan. Actually the only low D on which the “breaking point” of the low E was about the same as bottom D and F# was a Kerry.
(The MK had a very weak bottom D as well, but it doesn’t get points for this in my book.)
The Burke, like all other low D’s, has to compromise the size and position of the low E hole in order to make it reachable. To get a low E of the same strength as bottom D and F#, the E hole would have to be the same size as the F# hole, and be placed midway between the F# hole and the end of the whistle, where few could reach it.

About being “flutelike”, I played Irish flute for over 30 years and the Burke, to me, both sounds and performs in a more flutelike way than any other low D I’ve played.

Your review doesn’t address something that is criticial to me, the ability of a low D whistle to “play between the octaves”. The Susato does this better than any low D I’ve played, the Burke comes in second.

About volume, my Burke is the loudest low D I’ve played, by a considerable margin. I hear about other whistles being as loud or louder, but when I’ve actually tried them I’ve found it not to be the case.

A quibble I have with the Burke (and to be fair with other low D’s) is that the second octave is substantially louder than the first.

Let me reiterate that my reviews are just that, my opinion. :slight_smile: But at the risk of sounding defensive, here goes…

I wasn’t really comparing the low E on the viper to other whistles, just to the rest of the notes on the Burke itself. I am aware that the low E note is the weakest note on a low D in general, but I only brought it up with the Viper as it was comparatively weaker and broke more easily than the huge low D below it, and so it stood out more because of it.

The MK’s that I have played have not had weak low notes in my opinion. On my MK low D, the low D note has a lower breaking threshold then the low E note above it, so the E does not stand out the way it does for me on the Viper or say the Sweetheart Resonance. (Not that I would say the burkes E is as weak as the resonances was, not even close) However, I would not describe either the D or E on the MK as weak. I should perhaps make the distinction between what I consider to be a “weak” note and a note that has a low breaking point. Weak notes to me sound breathy, soft (quiet) and flattish tone wise (not pitch wise) in comparison to the other notes on the same whistle. These notes often have a low break point as well, but not necessarily. That said, I do feel the Burkes low E note is weaker sounding and has a lower break point in comparison to it’s other notes.

I’ve been listening to flutes for over 30 years and will humbly have to disagree, at least in the sound department. :slight_smile: Again, just my opinion.

I don’t feel qualified to comment on a whistles ability to play between octaves as it were, as it is not a technique I personally make use of. Perhaps in the future as I hopefully improve my own playing.

I agree that the Viper is nicely loud.

I did not find my Viper to have a large discrepancy in volume between octaves, all though my other Burkes do. Perhaps a difference between individual Vipers or maybe personal playing styles? I don’t know.

But really, at the end of the day it’s all a matter of opinion and personal preference. Doubtless there are some who would call me with my MK and you with your Burke idiots for not playing an Overton. :smiley: Seriously though, thank you for sharing your opinion pancelticpiper, it is after all what these forums are for. :slight_smile:

Dear Reviewer,

Nice review of the USED Viper you acquired. I also like your review of the USED MK you got from me! Yes, I confess: tis I who sold this noble reviewer his trusty MK; and I am very pleased that he likes it.

Regarding Mr. Burke’s responsiveness to emails and such; never had a problem. When I ordered my Viper on a Friday; I recieved it the following Monday. I had the same experience with an order for a DBSBT. I did register on his web site; could that explain it?

Now back to your used Viper. It might not exemplify Mike’s latest innovations. Mine is dated 2/2008 and it differs markedly from your description of tone and responsiveness as mine plays with character and complexity; plus it is the fastest handling of any low D I have played.

Regarding disassembly of the Viper, Mike mentioned to me that the lowest joint (the rotation part) of the whistle should NOT be removed for any reason.

BTW, I am sure I am not the only person that appreciates your time and expense in developing your web site. It is a good resource. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Cyril.

Your tune is the hornpipe The Humours of Tullycrine, aka Bobby Casey’s, usually in ADor. Kevin Burke plays a slow-ish setting on If The Cap Fits. And there are a couple of nice YouTube settings here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2M8P97N0Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eNNMheBVRM

Thanks! I thought it was called Bobby Casey’s, but when I looked under Bobby Casey’s Reel at the session.org, I got a different tune. I originally got the tune from this thread,
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=53421&highlight=bobby+caseys
and the poster called it a reel, not a hornpipe. (Ironically, this is the same poster who was just criticizing my spelling on another recent thread, gotta love the irony :smiley: )

This is the crux of the issue.

Having a very strong bottom D is crucial to playing the old “honking” flute style that I do. Tunes are accented with “breath pushes” on bottom and middle D to give them lift. E is usually not “pushed” in that way.

So having the bottom D being the strongest note is what I want. A whistle on which low E (nearly always the weakest note) is stronger than bottom D means, in reality, that bottom D is unacceptably weak.

I can see your point for your playing style. Now that I think about it, I prefer tunes in minor keys, so I end up playing in E minor allot. Hence probably why a weak/easily breaking E note bugs me more. I still would want to qualify the difference between the terms “weak” and breaking threshold.