Bubbly fingerwork

Irish Flute
21

This has been a good exercise for me, a non-flute player and beginning serious listener. I listened to the flute part of the radio program with Joey Doyle and then listened again to the only other flute player I have listened to, Vincent Broderick, on the Seoltai Siedte CD set, a collection of singing and instrumental solos by many different musicians recorded between 1957 and 1961. There are just two tracks for him.

Am I right in thinking that I cannot compare the actual sound of the two flutes I heard? One is on a professional recording, one is coming from a radio studio through my computer speakers, etc. The flute on the radio sounded harsh to my ears, really sometimes unpleasant. The one on the CD sounds very “nice” all the time.

I can only pick up so much at my level. But it seemed to me that Broderick’s playing of the reel set and jig set on the CD was very sparingly ornamented and the notes didn’t seem to be specially “articulated”. The only emphasis I was really aware of was the use of abrupt halts (on this whistle I guess this would be done with tonguing) at the ends of certain phrases. The odd thing for me is that I find the rhythm to be hard to follow, I get lost in the pieces much more easily than in other pieces played on other instruments on the CD. I then read a bit about Broderick at a website that described his style as “east Galway” and it mentioned sparing ornamentation and a lack of rhythmic “punch” as being characteristic of this style. So that might explain my problem, and I’ll look forward to listening more carefully since there is more going on there than I am hearing.

I could hear, in the playing of Joey Doyle, what I think would be the “bubbly” effect. It seems at times as if every note is being articulated in some special way—obviously I don’t have a clue as to what he is doing. But if it was on the whistle I might, as a beginner remember, say it sounded like he was cutting or tapping almost every note. I could get the rhythm and not get lost in the tunes.

Obviously, based on my small listening sample and inexperience, my opinion is not really the point of my response and, I think I have dragged things a bit off the topic for which I apologize. I am mainly interested in what people would say about the playing of Vincent Broderick, I have no idea how widely he might be listened to, and if I heard what other people hear when they listen to him.

I, on just this first exposure, found the “bubbly” effect, the messing about with almost every note, to be extremely tiring mentally. I might come to enjoy it if I listened to it more and also if I had it on a good recording.

22

Me, too. After awhile, though, listening to the blazing, highly ornamented style, it occurred to me that I was marveling at the flute playing, not the music. I’m more fond of the more down-to-earth players like Jack Coen and Frankie Kennedy these days. I listen to Frankie and think, what makes his playing so great? I LOVE the music he makes; that’s what makes his playing so great.

Jack, thanks for the link; I think I understand what you mean.

23

Yes Cynth, I know what you’re talking about. Some young kids prefer an attacking style (different from a sligo or northern attacking style BTW) and that’s why you might find it more articulated than Broderick (as well as harsher and less appealing due to the amount of the air they use and the tone they like to go after.) East Galway is considered a very smooth style and some people would call it extremely legato. I’ve never heard the clips you’re discussing but some more examples of this style could be found listening to someone like Paddy Carty.

24

As late as a year ago I never would have thought I could enjoy the pipes, or a concertina, but now that I have some sort of feel for the music, I can really get an appreciation for every instrument used in ITM. It is an interesting process.

25

Hmm, I don’t know anything about piping. Could you elaborate on your take of it? The reason I say this is because I’ve heard a few young guys like Joey Doyle who also play the pipes and it seems to be a feature of their playing (flute playing).

26

I guess I am “guilty” ( :roll: )of enjoying MM and Kevin Crawford. What attracts me most to their playing isn’t necessarily the blazing fast stuff (which is fun too) but also the more subdued tunes. Molloy plays “Sliabh Russell” wonderfully on Heathery Breeze, as well as that slow air with the Gaelic title that I can never recall. Crawford has some absolute gems on “In Good Company,” including the jig duet with Martin Hayes featuring the Bb flute and the viola. While these guys may have made their names with speed merchantry, both are much more than that, and pigeonholing them is shortsided. IMO, of course.

And what’s wrong with a crankin’ fast Em reel now and then anyways?

27

I have to own up to being extremely bubbly.

It is not something I have copied, from Matt Molloy or anyone else, but there are some ornaments I use to give a little more variation to a tune. I am very bad at changing notes in a tune and I use ornamentation instead.

I do understand what Murphy is saying. I tend to play a tune very simply at first, then add more ornaments towards the end. A guy I learnt from played that way and it stuck. However, using double rolls, as Conal O’Grada called them, all the time is hard on the ear.

I also think my playing the pipes influences the way I play the flute, but the bubbly style is not copied from the uilleann pipes. The crans and bubbles on higher notes feel closer to Highland pipes, although some players, like Sean Og Potts, are very bubbly too.

Mukade

28

Okay, thanks. I am familiar with his name and on that website (http://www.theflow.org.uk/index.html) they talked about him as one of the main players of the “east Galway” style, so I’ll find some of his playing to listen to.

29

The other night we were talking about Texas competition-style fiddling, and I see a correlation. Those guys have a repertoire of about 30 tunes, and the goal is to see who can play the heck out of each tune the best.

(Cowboy Paganinis, my friend called them.)

But anyway. Build a box like that to work in, and many people are bound to come up with some pretty creative solutions for decorating it! And to most audiences, all the colors and textures are dazzling at first. But eventually for some of us, all those shiny objects can take up too much mental real estate – and me, I begin to hunger for a simpler, more restful place.

By the same token, after 10 years of playing at Irish flute (note “at”), I’ve only just begun to be able to stand listening to most solo flute playing. And as brilliant as he is, I STILL can’t make it through more than 4 or 5 Molloy tracks at a time before I have to turn to players like the Mountain Road guys or Peter Horan or Marcas O Murchu or Patsy Hanly or Liam Kelly (I’m still enjoying Colm O Donnell, too) as an astringent. There comes a point where I feel assaulted by tortuous settings and technical brilliance – I suppose this is my real issue – by NOTHING BUT FLUTE SOUND. Argh! Please Lord, give me accompaniment!

(Then again, I’ve always figured I was just kind of simple that way.)

However, there’s a place for everything, especially in Solo Land, where the goal is – at least to a degree – to dazzle. And where your audience probably contains more than a few technique nerds. And shoot, you need variety when it’s just you playing for 10 or 20 minutes or an hour.

So even though I’m not a huge fan of the constant flow of bubbly (musical champagne! :slight_smile:), I think it serves a purpose. But once again, in the right time and place.

I agree with Jeanie the others who’ve said the question is what serves the tune best. And I’d like to add another question: what serves the venue (i.e., the place/setting you’re playing) the best?

If you’re playing with others, you need to make the most of all the voices. If you’re playing alone, I can see how you want to come up with different ways for making the most of your own.

Here we are again, horses for courses – tho’ I prefer the straight-ahead course myself. If it’s a great tune, I like to get out of its way.

But you know what? The truly great players – every last one of them – know how to do that, too. (altho’ usually I think it’s when they’re a bit older) :laughing:

30

I didn’t find the clip of Joey Doyle particularly over the top. When you listen to his playing, there seems to be very little breath articulation and so the majority of his articulation is coming from the ornamentation. This is what I would understand as being a bit more associated with a piping style (although being a GHB piper and not an uilleann piper I am certainly not overly qualified to make this distinction!)

Alot of the “bubbles” seemed to come from the “finger bounce” technique that was mentioned previously, particularly on the F and A notes. I occasionally use them but, like most ornamentation, unless your timing is spot-on you end up disrupting the flow of the tune.

For my money, young Doyle sounded more from the Egan school of bubbliness (I’m going to get a trademark on that name so that if Seamus ever wishes to open The Egan School of Bubbliness he will have to pay me a royalty :smiley: ) than from the Crawford school.

I agree with some of the previous comments regarding either unaccompanied or solo flute recordings. While it was Matt Molloy who turned me on to flute playing, I would struggle to listen to any of his albums from start to finish! However, some of my favourite solo recordings are actually duets. Paul McGrattan & Matt Molloy, Paul McGrattan & Hammy Hamilton and John Skelton & Keiran O’Hare. There is just something about the subtle differences when two flute players play the same tune together, that adds a great dimension to the music.

Graham

31

I understand and agree to some extent with what has been said re ‘bubbly playing’ with heavy ornamentation. To me though Matt Molloy manages to carry it off with great style and feeling. I get the impression that his ornamentation is sympathetic with the tune. I can think of some other players who play in a very similar style and manner. After listening to their playing a few times I find it too ‘flashy’ and sole less. I don’t find this with MM and to me it’s a mark of his genius.
In contrast I found the playing on John Crevan’s CD very refreshing and enjoyable for it relatively straight forward approach. I also found the pure solo flute on many tracks brave for today’s market / tastes but refreshing and enjoyable.

Kevin

32

Doyle’s smooth and technically adept, but I have a preference for a somewhat punchier approach to rhythms on the flute, including occasional emphases based on breath pulsing and breath stops. Of course each tune suggests different approaches to the player, and I’ll play some tunes more legato and ornamented than others.

33

That style of Mr Doyle’s isn’t really surprising is it? Joey Doyle was taught by Tom Doorley (of DANÚ), who took “lessons from Vincent Broderick and influences from many musicians including Séamus Mac Mathúna and Matt Molloy.”

He also studied classical flute at the academy of music and says ‘it was a big help with technique.’ Maybe the ‘bubbly’ is a combination of fingering and… vibrato! (gasp!).

(Strange your characterising Joey Doyle as a ‘kid’. At 20, I believe he’s not much younger than yerself).

34

Here’s a conjecture, sparked by the reference to Tom Doorley:

Is it possible that the development of arranged ensemble playing has contributed to bubblism? The reasoning is this - flutes are an instrument that tends to blend into the mix rather than stand out dramatically. Is the “poppy” nature of this style of playing an effort to add interest to the flute’s contribution amidst othr instuments?

Just a hypothesis,

worm

35

Yeah, this is the theory that I’ve held for a while. If Molloy’s style in '68 was not as ornament filled, I’d reckon his current way of playing the flute may be a result of getting a tight ensemble sound in the Bothy Band, specifically Keenan’s pipes. So throwing in more rolls, crans, focusing on the hard D may all be from trying to match the uileann pipes in the band.

–Jeff

36

The Essential Guide to Iirish Flute and Tin Whistle by Grey Larsen–

"The píob mór, like the pastoral bagpipe, had no capacity for momentary interruptions of the flow of air. Thus, their
melodies were constant, unbroken streams of sound. Any articulations, by necessity, were created solely by movements
of the fingers.
The implications of this can be understood most clearly when imagining the player of such a bagpipe playing two
consecutive melody notes of the same pitch. Since the flow of air cannot be interrupted, you can see that the second
note can only be produced by articulating it with a fingering technique. The varied use of these fingered articulations
became an integral and sophisticated element of Irish bagpipe music.
Irish flute and whistle players quite easily and directly adopted the pipers’ finger articulations as their own, even
though they do have the ability to interrupt the flow of air by using their tongue, glottis, and abdominal muscles.
These finger articulations go by various names, but are most commonly referred to as cuts and strikes by players of
the flute, whistle, and uilleann pipes. "

These “finger articulations” is THE Irish Traditional Aesthetic. But if you are speaking of the flapping around that some flute and whistle players do, trying to sound like cuts and strikes, this is wrong and not Irish music. But I will add very long rolls and very short stops that come from the harp tradition as used in Carolans and other tunes that originated on the harp.

Also, if you listen to the sean nos singer before the flutist in the clip, you can hear the “bubbly stuff” too. Propper "bubbly stuff’ makes it Traditional Irish Music.

37

I would say that the change in style is from a better understanding of the Irish Traditional Aesthetic gained through contact with other more ‘grounded’ musicians.

38

:roll:
[my emphasis]

How can music be “wrong?” I grant that new techniques might be. . . new and hence not traditional but I wasn’t aware that fluteplaying techniques had a moral component.

39

I still hold that it’s solo playing vs. ensemble playing, and bubbling is just one of the festive variations people have come up with to make certain SOLO playing more interesting, expressive, bouncier, busier, or whatever you want to call it. Someone heard a piper burbling away and said ‘Hey, that’s a cool same-note triplet alternative’, and off we all went.

(In some cases, maybe a little too far!)

Also, I don’t find Tom Doorley exceptionally bubbly when he’s playing with the band. Finger bounces and rhythmic taps, yes, but not burbles. I mean, you’d be crazy to get too bubbly with an ensemble … it’d turn into mush in no time and you’d lose the tune.

But sure, on a solo turn, do whatever you want. (Or whatever the audience and/or your bandmates seem to respond positively to :smiley:)

Finally, though, anent Tom D. – personally, I find his take on his teacher’s “Coachman’s Whip” to be Vincent Broderick the way it’s meant to be played. Broderick wrote lovely, lively tunes that don’t need a lot of bricabrac to be intriguing. (that’s part of why they’re such great fun to play!)

But … if one if faced with trying to come up with yet ANOTHER “definitive version” of Rolling in the Ryegrass … :roll: yeah, I could see how bubbles and suchlike could happen.

40

Oops. Baglady beat me.