Breathing and Phrases

Trad Irish Music
1

Here’s a question about phrasing and breathing. Of course you want to use the breaths you need to take on whistle or flute to enhance phrasing. The advice you often get is to breathe after a strong beat at the beginning of a phrase, and not to (routinely) breathe at the end of a phrase or part of a tune, so that you can tie into the repeat or the next phrase.

I am thinking about this more now, since on flute I need to take more breaths than on whistle. I’ve also been listening to a lot of flute players, and was struck by Matt Molloy’s Templehouse (on the self-titled album). Molloy pretty consistently takes a breath right before the strong beat (rather than after), especially in the second part.

Here is an abc, with some breaths marked in, as I make them out. Of course Molloy varies the breaths and doesn’t take all the ones marked each time around.

X:1
T:Templehouse
R:reel
D:Matt Molloy
M:C|
L:1/8
K:Em
EFGA BzAF|D2 (3FED ADFD|EFGA BE~E2|[1 BzAd BEED:|[2 B2Ad Beez||
gfef gfeg|fdde fddz|gfef gfed|Bd Ad Beez|
gfef gfeg|fdd^c dfaf|ezef gfed|Bz Ad BEED|]

Perhaps all that is going on here is Jones’ Second Law of ITM: “Whenever you formulate a rule about ITM, you find a totally traditional-sounding player who does it exactly the other way around.” Maybe it’s a flute thing. I would have expected a turn like this:

ed|gzef gfeg|fdde fddd|gzef gfed|Bd Ad Beed|
gfef gfeg|fdd^c dfaf|ezef gfed|Bz Ad BEED|]

Any insights on placing breaths & phrasing?

2

It’s funny, Bloomfield, because I recently ran across this paragraph on Ron Greenway’s site:

“You’ll also hear a lot of players dropping the fourth note of the beat in reels. This makes your phrases begin on the downbeat, creating a foursquare, stately feeling. To me, this style of phrasing seems particularly characteristic of East Galway/Clare players.”

Maybe how Mr. Molloy performs “Templehouse” is a result of who he got the tune from?

3

That is interesting. I also notice that the first two two-bar phrases of the turn end in essentially long notes: … fd3 and …Be3, while the third phrase has a melodically characteristic run leading up to bars 7 and 8: …c dfaf|ezef. It is there that Molloy doesn’t drop the last eighth of the 6th bar, but the second one in the 7th.

4

Yeah, that’s a nice run, isn’t it? I just played through your transcription a little bit. Dropping the last note out of bar 6 really makes the phrase sound anti-climatic in my opinion: …c dfaz|e2ef. Tunes like these make me realize I have so much to learn about musicality–extending that phrase is beautiful!

5

Yall are so hardcore.

6

The way I’d approach it is by looking at the phrases, and where they end. In the turn, you could drop the second note of the 2nd and 4th bars, and it would work. I’d do that if I were short of steam, or as a variation.

Similarly, you can drop the eighth notes of bars two and four of the turn, and it will work with the phrasing, won’t work against it.

Definitely you wouldn’t want to drop the eighth note of the 1st bar in the turn because that takes away from the next beat.

Anyway, that’s the way I’d play it.

Mike

7

He may have been relishing the lyricism of the “gfef gfe” phrases, the defining motif of the turn in this tune, and simply didn’t want to break them up.

8

Well, Molloy’s way of phrasing is different because he really tries to hide his breaths where as other players will use a breath in a more blatant rhythm enhancing way.

9

Here’s another example of fourth-beat dropping, by Micho Russell in Rolling in the Ryegrass. Bars 17, 21, 25, 29.

http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/rollingmicho.html

In fact nearly all the transcriptions of Micho playing reels on this site show one or more fourth beats dropped.

10

The day I can choose where to breathe based on the tune will be a day of great rejoicing!

Has anyone else taken on some serious exercise, just to get your lung capacity and breathing rhythms ready for flute playing? I’m thinking swimming… there has got to be a way I can actually last to the place I think the music wants me to breathe.

In listening to different players, you’re right MurphyStout. Some players breathe very inconspicuously and others do the big gulp right out in the open.

Jennie

11

I might end up changing my mind in the future but for this moment in time I hold the belief that Molloy isn’t one of those flute players that uses breathing as a prominent phrasing motif. Like Jack says, the effect of his breathing is often aimed to be on the more inconspicuous side so you get the streaming sound he achieves. In my mind this approach is a bit different from that of flute/whistle players Willie Clancy, Tara Bingham, Peadar O’Loughlin and other old styled Clare/Sligo players where breathing is applied more purposefully as part of phrasing.

12

Quote: “Last edited by Eldarion on Apr 25, 2005 1:34 pm; edited 100 times in total”

I gotta admire your perfectionism mate! :smiley:

13

I agree with the thinking by phrases: as for the lyricism of ‘gfe’, yeah, I think it’s important to keep those together as part of the expression.

The dropped note in the first bar adds a bit of lift, doesn’t it.

I also notice that the first two two-bar phrases of the turn end in essentially long notes:
… fd3 and …Be3

Yes, though to my way of thinking, the left out notes would likely become f’s to lead-in to the g. Thing is, leading into the g like that a couple times so close together could feel too “slippery, slidey” and be one reason to drop it for a stronger statement of the phrase.

I guess for general phrasing, I think this reel is pretty straightforward, yeah? It falls into standard sense of:

  1. “based around E” for the 1st bar,
  2. then drop down to D for the next,
  3. back up to E to do essentially the same idea, and then
  4. the cadence.

The turn mirrors the sense of harmonic expectations set up in the 1st part:
9. 1st bar of the turn based around (for my way of thinking) the g-e 3rd,
10. then drop down to base around the f-d 3rd,
11. then back to the g-e 3rd
12. the cadence.

On the “repeat” we have the same thing with exceptions that heighten dynamic contrasts.

  1. 1st bar of the turn based around the g-e 3rd,
  2. then drop down to base around the f-d 3rd, but breaking out of the 3rd by hitting the highest note yet. As quick as it happens it’s still a dynamic statement because of the big interval it traverses in that short moment, and to me gives a sense of breaking out of the routine to set up an exception:
  3. long e to g. To me, gives a sense of simmering intensity… it’s not the quicker movement we’ve come to expect, and it’s a rising, not necessarily resolved, feel.
  4. the cadence

There’s still so much going on, and trying to explain how you hear how it all works is so darn tough. But one idea for me is how far the notes go in the phrases, how those notes are set up as strong or not, and how long it takes for them to get there. It’s some of the dynamic difference between the 1st part (relatively slower movement from E up to B) and the 2nd part (quicker movement between g and e, mirrored by f to d) of the whole tune.

I guess I could try to depict what I see as the more important phrase distinctions (bar by bar) as going like:

ABAC ABAC (pretty stable through the repeats)
DEDC DE’FC (increasing change up to the end)

Does this stuff feel helpful at all or just like a load of unintellible hot air?

(edited to remove the idea that the lead-in to the cadence is longish in the turn).

14

I’ve just changed over instruments and played through the reel. Either I gave it too cursory a go through on the whistle or you just hear things different depending how you treat different instruments, but one thing I found very attractive is that the “dfaf | e3” is reminiscent of a phrase in Carolan’s Mabel Kelly. I guess this is just how you build a relationship with a tune, and find different ways to treat it mentally as you play through variations.

It’s also indicative of how I like to espouse lots of stuff before I properly consider all the angles :slight_smile:

15

One of the most fascinating things I found with the Templehouse in
particular is that going around again after the first time I don’t often take
the next breath in the same place as before. That changes all the
remaining phrases as a result. Especially if you follow the “breathe before
you need to” advice. This is one of the first tunes where I started to study
phrasing and how it changes the tune.

16

Although I did learn this tune from Matt Molloy’s playing - his is the version that I can hear in my head - and I don’t think I’ve played it a lot since then (quite a few years ago), I phrase it quite differently to Bloomfield’s transcription. My breathing in the first part seems to be more different to his than in the second; I would probably play something like:
EFGA BFAF | Dz^ED ADFD | EFGA BE~E2 | [1B(2cBAc BEED :|[2B2Ad Beez |

Different breathing in the second part seems to me not to change the feel of the tune as much as in the first.. Although if I re-read and re-play this in the morning, that might have changed significantly. Maybe I’ll do that… :slight_smile:

My bed is calling me…

Night!
D

17

Interesting. My transcription, esp. of the first part which MM varies more, isn’t meant to show how he plays it, just the places where at some point or other he drops a note for a breath. (And I am not sure I marked every place.) For example, MM does play EFGA BFAF | D… the first time and several times thereafter, and only sometimes drops the F for EFGA BzAF | D…

18

For example, MM does play EFGA BFAF | D… the first time and several times thereafter, and only sometimes drops the F for EFGA BzAF | D…

What does dropping that note do to the overall phrasing of that part of the tune? Is that supported by phrasing surrounding that area? For instance, does that make the AF after the dropped note part of the next phrase. Often the rhythm will switch to an emphasis on the position of that A note (3412 3412- it becomes the down beat for a measure or so before switching back to the 1234 1234). That’s a common option at that point.
Tony