This topic has probably come up before, so if you want to link me to an older thread, great.
I’m a flute player primarily who is sometimes called upon to play high D whistle at gigs. I borrowed an Overton from a friend for a long while, but he asked for it back. I just can’t afford to buy a $300 dollar whistle, but I like that I could put a rather hard blow in the Overton and the tone would stay stable. I have a Jerry Freeman Sweetone but it takes too light a blow and I can’t play it well right out of the bag a few times a year.
What do you all think are possible options in the $100 range?
You may want to look at a Susanto. Don’t know about “best” as there are certainly differing opinions, or what you would consider a “Hard blow” whistle, but the Susanto is quite stable at high volumes.
Hard blowing, soft blowing. It’s all relative. Right?
There may be some confusion in using the term “hard blower”. Some call it “back pressure” but it is not the same as that term would mean in a flute. It does cross paths with what others call “push” though.
I get the use of the term “hard blower” in regard to the Overton and Goldie whistles. In that context it refers to the whistle having a low windway height therefor requiring the player to blow hard to get the notes. It’s a very well considered design tactic. Even with the low windway height a “hard blower” Goldie has a rather smooth and predictable breath pressure curve.
The Susato (any bore type) has a higher windway and would be characterised more as a “soft blower” in the Goldie usage. But the Susato S-series does require some “push” in the upper register, which is where it gets rather loud. The Susato S-Series high D does not have the same smooth breath pressure curve, pressure needs to be increased to a greater degree as the notes get higher. A fair number of whistles are like that. The old Sweetheart whistles required a lot of “push” IMO.
I tend to think of things as either “open” and free blowing as opposed to “closed” or constrained. Again it has to do mostly with the windway height. So a Clarke is very “open” and an Overton would be at the “closed” end of the spectrum. There’s a whole lot of geography between those two points.
I happen to prefer more open and free-blowing whistles. But … I’ve owned Overton and OS Chieftains that were in the “closed” or “hard blower” category. Both would be the type you might be looking for. So I’d recommend one of those two if you can find one second hand. $100 might get you an OS Chieftain. I’m drawing a blank on what other whistles might be really similar.
One of Erle Bartlett’s Syn whistles might suit you though. It is more of a “push” whistle than a “hard blower” IME. The pressure increase is more gradual than on some other whistles. But it’d be worth looking into as an option. The price is in your range.
Id suggest that rather than buying whistles at random and hoping they play like an overton, youd be better off committing to the whistle you have until your body understands how to blow it. The problem you describe sounds like operator error to me. If you spend a couple of weeks playing that whistle exclusively, your muscle memory will adjust and you`ll never have to think of it again.
Don’t have the time nor the inclination. Whatever limited time and energy I have goes into flute practice (vocals, guitar thereafter in that order, but usually just flute). I need a whistle that matches more what I do on flute rather than having to master a different embouchure and blow.
OK sounds like I just have to get a new Goldie. Tough life.
And if the Goldie doesnt play enough like the Overton, there are tons of other makers you can try. Who knows, you might get really lucky and find a new whistle like your old one faster than itll take to learn to play the whistle(s) you already have. For a guy who says he can`t afford $300, you must like throwing money away. Good luck.
Not sure why you’re so snarky about this. I just find the Overton/Goldie easier to play well. And Goldies do play like Overtons–it’s the same design. Fortunately, the dollar/euro exchange has improved considerably, so it’s only $200. Apparently, there isn’t a cheaper option out there to get what I’m looking for. Who said anything about throwing money away? That’s what I’m trying to avoid.
You must be projecting something internal, something about yourself–good luck working that out.
I had an Alba which was a hard blower-so much so-I sold it for $35 because it was so hard to play. The old style chieftains are hard blowers, too. Try a WTB ad and see what turns up.
Your question has got me thinking here, because when I play whistle (which is likewise less often than the flute), I play a Burke brass session D whistle and a Goldie low D (medium blower)…definitely at different ends of the back pressure continuum. I’ve never tried a Goldie (“high”) D whistle, and found the Susato I had years ago far too shrill for my ear in the second octave. Going back and forth between the Burke and the Goldie definitely takes some adapting to, so I wonder if a Goldie D whistle or something similar in compatible back pressure would make life easier, as I have to really back off of the Burke from playing the Goldie. Paul’s suggestion of a custom Freeman whistle sounds like an interesting option too. Hope you enjoy the Goldie…as I’m sure you’ve heard already, Colin is great to work with.
Gene Milligan whistles respond well to blowing hard. The tone stays stable, which means that you get some decent dynamics in the volume. I would describe the tone as resonant and “woody” rather than sparkly and “metallic”. The tone does respond to shaping with embouchure, which obviously takes a little practice. New they run $185, which is pretty reasonable for a hand-crafted whistle, and they come up $50 lower on occasion at the eBay. I’ve met Gene who is a retired acoustical engineer, and I have a “square shooter” feeling from my interactions with him.
Syn is another good choice in the $100 range, but I don’t know about their breath requirements.
Freeman tweaked whistles are a great deal. They are very easy & responsive players, but I wouldn’t say they withstand hard blowing.
I’ll add Impempe whistles out of South Africa to the discussion. I have had a Bb and high D and both would fit your request, and have a lovely tone, although to my ear they are a little quieter than some other whistles I have/have had. I’ll second the discussion re Alba (have a G and had a high D) and Milligan (had a high C), though both makes take a fair amount of air (e.g., you can blow them hard and you have to blow hard, especially in the second octave). I’m also a big fan of everything Jerry has, but I wouldn’t describe any of my dozen or so of his whistles as a hard blower. Good luck with the search.
As I said early on in this thread, I think there is some confusion between a whistle which is a “hard-blower” in the Overton/Goldie sense and a whistle that can be or needs to be blown hard (especially in the second octave). That is what some would call “push”. If a whistle “takes/uses a lot of air” then it is not what Overton/Goldie would call a “hard-blower”.
Do it yourself time - take your current high D and make the volume of the entry smaller - toothpick(s) etc - adjust as needed - smaller opening means more pressure required to play. give it a try - cost basically zero.
That’s what I have been doing recently on some whistles. Second octave became problematic in some attempts.
The main question is, do you make the windway narrower, do you raise the floor, or lower the roof, or a combination of the 3
In most whistle designs it is critical to get the geometry between the floor of the windway and the edge of the blade correct. It very much determines how well the whistle will speak.
So to restrict the windway to use less air you would generally want to lower the height of the windway by modifying the ceiling of the windway somehow. If you are familiar with the classic squashing of the top of the windway on Clarke originals you’ll get the idea. How you perform the same trick on other whistles is up to you. In some cases you can merely restrict or redirect air flow at the top of the exit of the windway. But it’s touchy business.
Narrowing the windway from side to side will reduce the air input but mostly it will result in lower volume. It does not usually change the geometry between the exit of the windway and the blade. There is one design where that is the exception. That is on whistles where the blade is formed by simply cutting the head pipe on an angle to form the edge. On those, narrowing the windway limits the airstream to the middle of the blade where that design is more-ish efficient and it avoids sending air to the edges where it mostly makes hissing noises. Fashioning a vee shaped channel might make the most sense in that case.
On some whistles that need to be “pushed” the airstream does not hit the blade so that it oscillates optimally (IMO). There are a lot of reasons that will vary depending on the design of the head. On those that may be wooden whistles with wood/cedar plugs they may share an issue common with many wooden recorders. The plug changes shape, usually swells a bit but could also have shrunk, and it needs to be re-shaped. The whistle gets stuffy and requires a lot of air velocity to do the job as the frequency of the notes increases. Bits of millimeters count in these cases.
The Overton/Goldie design is very specific, speaking of the “hard blowers”. The OS Chieftains were similar IMO. They have a low windway height by design. The focus of the airstream hitting the blade is well aimed. It works very well, uses little air but requires comparatively more pressure at the mouthpiece than other whistles. Chances of overblowing a note on one of these is low. Some players appreciate that, while others may not.
As Feadoggie said + don’t mess with floor of the windway - experiment with narrowing the windway - toothpicks etc and/or lowering the roof with tape etc - Temporary ‘fixes’ that can be undone. A harder blowing whistle will be noticed mostly in the second octave.
