Send June a note: draiochtmusic@yahoo.com
I guarantee she’ll be delighted to hear from you.
Well, I got a copy of the Larsen book a bit ago. A nice guy from the forum here contacted me and sent me one, in great shape with the CDs, that was doing him little good, at a fine discount.
Haven’t got much into it as of yet. But I can tell you that, as a beginner, the first section, with all it’s talk about tonal centers and D Ionian and G Mixolydian and E Aeolian and so on and so forth, really made my eyes glaze over.
Further on it looks a bit more hands on and practical. But we’ll see.
You were warned.
Yes I was.
That is one of the reason, for it’s price, I was vacillating between it , the McCormick and some other books.
But I received an offer I couldn’t refuse. So, at this point I’m just saying…not really complaining. Even if it does turn out to be heavy thoughout.
Worse case, I’ll pass along the favor at some point.
To read G Larsen’s book cover to cover is like reading the encyclopedia from cover to cover. You just don’t do that.. (especially not if you are a beginner!) But it is a great tool for looking up stuff, like different types of ornamentation etc. I don’t use the same fingering as Larsen, but I still find the technique/ornamentaion section very useful…
Sigmund
I have used Larsen’s book on a regular basis and have found it very useful and informative. As a result of this post, “Larsen v. McCormack” I have ordered a copy of the McCormack book. I look forward to exploring the differences between the two authors. Thank you for asking the question and thanks to the members who have expressed their opinions.
I’m well into the Larsen book now, and really really like it. Can’t compare with McCormack, as I don’t have that, but I find Larsen authoritative, warm, wry and friendly. I like the in-depthness of it, the history of flutes and whistles, his deep passion for the subject. I do intend to work my way through from one end to the other, and Larsen says it’s meant to be read that way.
It’s not a book for total beginners, obviously, as he assumes familiarity with musical terminology, but that’s part of the attraction for me. It annoys me when I have to waste half a ‘how to play’ book because it’s all about notation.
Admittedly, I can’t now actively remember what is Mixolydian and what Dorian, but the book has helped me to begin to understand how they’re formed (which is more than my lovely piano teacher ever achieved).
I’ve been working with McCormack’s book “Fliuit” for about a week now, and finding it a bit frustrating. She writes out the tunes in detail, including ornaments and breath marks, but doesn’t play the examples that way. Even the slow version of each song doesn’t match the version in the book. She doesn’t play all the ornaments shown in the notation, and adds extra ones. She drops and adds notes as well. If you follow the notated version of a tune in the book, you’ll never match what she does on the CD. I think an inexperienced player would assume he was doing something wrong, and get discouraged.
She plays the fast versions of the tunes with even more departures from the written versions. This would be incredibly discouraging, but she plays beautifully, with a style of ornamentation and phrasing that really lets the tune breath. After working my way through the first two tunes, I’ve given up on the book, and am working directly with the audio tracks, using a iPhone program to repeatedly loop over sections of the slow versions of the tunes to figure out what she’s doing. I don’t think I would be able to do this if I had not already spent some time learning from Grey Larsen’s book.
I don’t want to complain too much about Fliuit. Picking apart and copying recorded tunes is a great way to learn, and the Fliuit CDs provide the best source material I’ve found for learning this way. I also found that, while McCormack’s explanation of ornaments is pretty sparse, her choice of fingerings for cuts and rolls works better on my flute than do Larsen’s. It just seems like there could be a better middle ground between McCormack’s vague approach and Larsen’s obsessive detail.
Hey tsackett,
I couldn’t have said that better myself. I agree with most your comments, particularly:
Yes, That is really annoying! And some tunes (at least one, but I have not listened and practiced the whole book) do not even have a slow version, so we are left with the speedy one and the score!
However my greatest frustration with Mrs McCormack book is that the “tutorial” is not really a tutorial. It’s a list of very basic and easy ornamentation exercises and a set of tunes. She says that the tunes are ordered from the easiest to the more difficult, but the tunes themselves are organized by type (single jigs, polkas, hornpipes, jigs, reels, etc). So after the first tune what should one do next? Proceed to the first Polka, or the first reel? And should one practice the 3rd reel before the 8th jig? When should one introduce short rolls? As it is the book is the opposite what should be a tutorial! I have written to Mrs McCormack to help me on this subject but she did not answer me. If anyone has any clues on the tune order, that would be really precious. Not that one should be too strict on that, but at least to have a guideline, and know what to expect as one proceeds through the tunes.
A suggested order of practice, and some rough comments (something like “This is the first tune where long rolls appear - practice bars 3,4 and 12,13 separately and then slowly add them to the tune”) would take one extra sheet of paper and would make the book a much better value. If Michael Rooney or June McCormack read this forum, please take that into account and add it as an addenda to the book, or create a PDF and put it on the Fliuit website! That would be a real treat! This alone would make Fliuit a five star tutorial!
If you’re a more “organic” type and an auditory learner, June’s book may appeal more.
I agree with what Rob said and found June’s book very useful and more in tune with the way I learn. I prefer to learn by ear rather than dots so didn’t notice that the music is different from the recording.
I’m another who prefers her style of playing and think that her tutor is the next best thing to having one to one tuition - I’d use the music as a guide and learn from the tunes and slow them down even more if you need to.
I wouldn’t fault McCormack for calling Fliuit a tutorial. I’m pretty sure that the terms “tutorial”, “tutor”, and “method” are pretty much interchangeable in the music publishing industry, and often refer to works that are meant to be used along with a teacher, rather than as “how to” books that can stand on their own.
After reading your comment, I looked back through the tunes in Fliuit. The tunes aren’t actually segregated by type, with all the jigs in one place, and reels in another. Instead, the tunes are “clumped”, starting with a couple jigs, then a few polkas, followed by barn dances and marches, then back to jigs, and so on. I’m not too far into it yet, but I think this arrangement works. Learning a few tunes of the same type in a row has helped me get a feel for the rhythm and phrasing appropriate to each type that I wouldn’t get if it jumped from one type of tune to another.
Nope!
Look into page 55 and you’ll get it! The order is:
Single Jigs
Polkas
Barndances
Marches
Jigs
Slip Jigs
Hornpipes
Reels
Airs
They never mix.
Cheers!
You are absolutely right. Had I looked in the index, instead of paging through the tunes, I would have seen this right away. I missed the fact the first jigs are single jigs. Now I really don’t understand how we’re supposed to use this book.
I’m going to keep working at it. I’m still convinced that the individual tunes, and the way McCormack plays them, are pure gold, but I have to, again, rethink my approach to learning from it. First I threw out the book, now I have to ignore the order of the tunes.
Maybe when I’m done, I’ll write my own how-to book: “Meta-Fliuit: The Irish Flute Tutorial Tutorial”.
As far as which tutorial goes, who would you rather sound like: Larsen or McCormack?
The order in June’s book goes from simple to more complex. In general it is easier to play jigs than to play reels. You can argue with this, but there is truth in this generalization. Some teachers of ITM recommend not playing reels until you feel comfortable playing jigs, marches, and hornpipes. Reels are sexy but most people play them way too fast for their level of accomplishment. I am surprised by how many people want to play Cooley’s or Maid Behind the Bar before they can play, say, Maid on the Green or The Bride’s Favorite.
June has the right idea. Move from easy to difficult, picking up tunes and technique as you go. Of course you’ll be tempted to play a reel before you should, but if you play it slowly, within your comfort range, you’ll be fine.
Did somebody say easy? It’s a list of very basic and easy ornamentation exercises. Without having heard you play I’ll bet that you can’t include these “easy” ornaments in your tunes. And if her explanation of ornaments is pretty sparse, the playing itself is so rich and complex that if you listen closely you’ll learn what you have to. That’s why the book comes with CDs.
This: If you follow the notated version of a tune in the book, you’ll never match what she does on the CD is certainly true. But that’s no reason to be discouraged by this discouraging instrument. If it was easy everybody would be doing it. And if you could match what she does on the CD you’d be June, and not yourself. This is an aural tradition and anything written is only an approximation of what the music is all about. She doesn’t pretend to be notating everything she does. In fact, most things musical can’t be notated or articulated except by playing. Which is why a flesh and blood teacher is always better than a book - a sentiment with which I am sure June would agree.
Finally, there is this: I have written to Mrs McCormack to help me on this subject but she did not answer me. For one thing, it is Ms. McCormack or Mrs. Rooney. And frankly, I don’t blame her. I don’t mean to be mean, but you’re being a bit presumptuous. You bought a book, not a direct line to a teacher. Take a few lessons, or a workshop, with her and then you might better expect that she would answer your emails.
I totally agree, but this is not my complaint. I sincerely doubt that It is necessary to play all the jigs, polkas and hornpipes until one can start on a relatively simple reel as the Peeler’s Jacket (1st reel presented) I cannot contest that order, but I would like to know a more concrete order of work. Like, as I said, when should one start The Mills are Grinding (reel), for instance?..
The exercises presented ARE easy. What is difficult is their inclusion in a tune, accurately, timely and precisely. To me that IS difficult. If the exercises were a bit more complex (say, with some variations- like in Larsens’ book), they would be more useful. But I’m not complaining on that area. The real exercises are the tunes and those are good.
I believe that you are being a bit unfair in several of your remarks here.
a) Julia, not everyone here is a native English speaker. Thank you for your correction, but that was frankly unnecessary.
b) I don’t blame her either. I was not demanding an answer, just asking for some help. It is not unusual for me to write to other authors asking for clarifications. I have done so other times, sometimes I receive an answer, others I do not. I just stated a fact. I needed help, and did not receive it. I have asked for help here and in other forums and most times I receive it!
c) Unfortunately for me, I’m the only Irish flute player I know of in a radius of 100 km, so no lessons or workshops available. I’ll have to be on my own or ask for help by email or on forum posts, which is what I’m doing!
[and if you care to answer, feel free to correct my spelling and grammar 
]
Cheers!
Well, Andre, if you posted your location I might have passed on the social distinctions implied in Mrs vs Miss vs Ms.
In all English-speaking countries it is the same:
Ms – Either a married or an unmarried woman, or if you’re not sure which
Mrs – a married woman
Miss – an unmarried woman
Ms is used out of courtesy when we do not know the marital status of the woman, or if she prefers the title.
… as I said, when should one start The Mills are Grinding (reel), for instance?. Really, how can anybody answer that without hearing you play? What book can tell you that?
There are people who will be only to happy to critique your playing if you post something. And there are people offering lessons via Skype if you have that facility with your computer. If you did post your location somebody might come forth with a recommendation for a teacher close to you. Just because you don’t know of one doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
As far as which tutorial goes, who would you rather sound like: Larsen or McCormack?
I’d like to sound like someone who can bring out the best in each tune without trying to sound like a virtuoso. So far, that’s closer to McCormack.
The order in June’s book goes from simple to more complex. In general it is easier to play jigs than to play reels.
In general, yes. In a book of tunes ordered by difficulty, I would expect to see the reels near the end of the book. However, I would not expect to see all the jigs in the first half and all the reels in the second. It seems like the author would have had to go to a lot of trouble to create a steadily increasing level of difficulty while maintaining strict separation of each type of tune.
Did somebody say easy? > It’s a list of very basic and easy ornamentation exercises. >
I never said this is easy, or that I expected it to be easy. In fact, I need all the help I can get, which is why I wish that McCormack had included a section title “Here’s how to get the most out of Fliuit”.
This: > If you follow the notated version of a tune in the book, you’ll never match what she does on the CD > is certainly true.
When I said that, I wasn’t talking about the fast versions of the tunes; I was referring to the slow ones, the ones where she is supposed to be holding your hand the entire time.
Imagine you are a beginner. You can read music okay. Maybe you already play silver flute. You’ve listened to a lot of Irish music CDs, but didn’t know a cut from a bounce from a cran before picking up Fliuit. You’ve read through Fliuit’s ornamentation section and now you’re ready to play the first tune in the book. It’s a simple jig, and she’s notated it with eight cuts, showing you exactly where to play them. She’s even noted where to take a breath by adding rests in several places. It’s very straightforward and precise, and after a few times through, you can play it.
You then pull out the CD play the slow version of the tune and, by the second bar, she’s playing something different than you. It sounds like you’re starting the next phrase too early. You go back and forth to figure out what you did wrong, finally figuring out that she’s decided to take two eighth notes of rest, instead of the eighth of rest plus the pickup note to the next phrase. The rest of the 1st part is okay, but when she comes back around for the second time through, your first note doesn’t sound anything like hers. Hers has some sort of bounce to it. You wonder if she added some kind of ornament there (she did), but you’re not sure. At the end of the second time through, she leaves out one of the cuts. Were you not supposed to play it? You keep on going to the second part. Halfway through it she adds cut that’s not marked. Then she doesn’t play another one that is marked. The second time through, she drops some notes out of phrase, while adding some where she had marked a rest.
This is what I mean when I say you’ll never match what she does on the CD. I was able to figure what she was doing because I’ve been playing music for thirty years, know how to transcribe recordings, and already worked through most of Larsen’s book. If you’re a beginner, or even intermediate player, using the CD for confirmation that you’re playing the tune correctly, all you hear is that you’re playing it wrong, but you don’t know why.
As for the fast versions of the tunes: they are lovely examples of how to play tunes with a moderate amount of ornamentation, at a moderate speed. A beginner won’t be able to pick apart what she is doing until he’s worked about half way through the book (I’m guessing here.), but the student who goes back to the beginning and relearns the tunes by analyzing the fast version will learn a lot.
She doesn’t pretend to be notating everything she does.
There’s no point in having a simplified, carefully-notated version of the tune in the book, and a slow, carefully-played version on CD that don’t match.
As for the fast versions of the tunes: they are lovely examples of how to play tunes with a moderate amount of ornamentation, at a moderate speed. A beginner won’t be able to pick apart what she is doing until he’s worked about half way through the book (I’m guessing here.), but I the student who goes back to the beginning and relearns the tunes by analyzing the fast version will learn a lot.
Hi Julia,
In the first place, thank you for your answer and your compliment. You did not track I was a foreigner (a Portuguese, in fact!) by my written English
No one actually could tell me that, not even the best teacher! I’m a teacher myself (not music, though), and I know by experience that it is difficult to say when a student is ready for another more difficult challenge. But a book with a set of progressive lessons can give you hints on the steps how to progress. That’s why there are lessons and grades! Of course in Ms McCormack’s book there is some sort of organization according to difficulty but, as a parallel, imagine the 8 years ABRSM flute curriculum organized in one single volume with pieces distributed by periods: part A. Music from 1700 to 1750; Part B music from 1750 to 1800, and so on… and each part organized by difficulty! That would be really difficult to work with, if used as a method/tutorial.
BTW, on this aspect, Gray Larsen’s book is not better. The only interesting thing there (from a tutorial point of view) are the ornamentation exercises, which are progressively difficult, and really allow one to develop in that area.
Yes, I did a day long workshop once with Grey and it was the single most useful workshop I’ve ever done (done lots),
especially concerning ornamentation. He has a theoretical sort of mind and I think it helps him as a teacher,
though I don’t necessarily agree with the theory all the time.
@tsackett: Try reversing your learning process: give the recorded version primacy over the printed page. Listen to June play the tune over and over until you can sing it in your head, and then get out the flute, using the sheet music as a crutch. It should be easier to match what she’s playing.
I’d also suggest that you don’t have to perfectly match every note, every ornament. My suspicion is that the printed and recorded versions deliberately don’t match–it trains you not to look for a definitive version of a tune and forces you to rely more on the ear than the eye.