I thought I would post this particular question to my friends and family at C&F, rather than the yahoo board.
I’m a beginner u.piper and I just recently got a 1/2 set made by a reputable US maker.
My biggest surprise in learning to play is how hard I have to squeeze the bag to get even the slightest squeek to come out. I’m talking really hard. When I listen to CDs the really good players sound like they’re barely even pressing on their bags- the notes seem to effortlessly come forth.
I have been playing music long enough to know that the experts always make it sound easy and effortless.
So, what are people’s experiences who have played on many different sets made by different manufacturers? Do they all basically have the same air pressure requirements? I’m assuming that my reed is fairly decent quality as it came from the manufacturer.
When I play up into the second octave, it really really gets tough. After playing for a few minutes I am exhausted. Any advise?
Quitting over a little physical exertion isn’t an option. I like uilleann pipes too much for that.
[ This Message was edited by: John-N on 2001-09-24 18:58 ]
Sounds like something is really wrong with the plumbing from the bag to the chanter, assuming that the reed is OK. If you disconnect the chanter from the bag, is there considerable resistance to air flow? If you remove the reed from the chanter and suck (don’t blow!!!) on the staple end, can you easily get a tone?
John,
Don’t despair, reed problems are a part of Uilleann pipes by their very nature. You’re asking this instrument to make some of the most awesome sounds known to mankind, so you have to coax them a bit to get something in return. If it were easy, everyone would play one.
Assuming you have nothing faulty with your setup you should expect reeds to be on the firm side… I would expect the drones to play with medium pressure and it’s the chanter you’re having trouble with.
Pipes are different than standarized woodwinds, like a saxophone, where you can easily buy reeds in varying grades of firmness. A beginner would use a 1 - 1 1/2 where a pro might select a 4 - 5 and couldn’t play the same style on a softer reed. Changing between grades is simple and not expensive.
Sax reeds last months, Uilleann pipe reeds last years depending on the player and conditions.
You can scrape and sand a reed to play softer but you may go through a few reeds until you learn where and when to stop scraping. Once you’ve removed the cane you can’t undo the process and may render a reed worthless if it cracks or becomes too thin to play under pressure.
As a beginner you might want to buy a book on reeds. Pipers Despair by Quinn or Uilleann Pipe Reedmaker’s Guidance Manual by Hegarty can give you valuable insight on reed tweaking.
I have 2 spare reeds that are so firm I have to ‘stand on the bag’ just to get them to play. Of the players I’ve met, I haven’t been able to comfortably play their sets, I feel they require too much pressure for my taste, but the reeds play better this way. Try to find someone in your area that can play your pipes and give you assistance. You might also call the pipemaker for some advice. Just don’t get frustrated as you have plenty of resources and people willing to help !
[ This Message was edited by: Tony on 2001-09-25 08:10 ]
Yes,
to all of the above. Stronger bottom D, much louder, brighter tone and less likely to have tuning and weather related problems.
Just like new shoes, they get more comfortable when ‘played in’ as each reed has it’s own personality and tunes and reacts slightly different than the next one.
As I may have indicated before, my personal preference is a softer reed. I’ve been in two car accidents in the last 5 years and can’t develop as much arm pressure (without pain) as I would like, so I compensate by shaving the reeds, this makes the reed overly sensitive to changes in bag pressure. I can accept this and have a great deal of fun playing pipes.
hey john,i can’t really say with out looking but it sounds like the reed lips are too far open,if you have a sliding bridal try sliding it down(away from the lips)and look carfully at the space between the lips to see if they have become closer together which should mean less bag pressure.my presure is such that i have to remember to back off a little on low D or she might squeal.call the maker,make sure the lips are still curved,they can go flat-straight,especially coming from over seas,be carefull removing the wind cap as this is one of the easiest ways to damage a reed.you’llget it straightened out,cheers,tansy
Apart from reed problems, you should check the airflow from bellows to chanter first. Are the valves on bellows and bag closing firmly to prevent backflow of air? Are bag and bellows themselves airtight (use a cork and press!!!). Sometimes the bag seasoning comes off and gets into the blowpipe. When playing without a popping strap, often air leaks from the bottom of the chanter and causes the chanter to sqeak . There are many things that can give you a hard time keeping up the pressure. You should check them first before ever thinking of touching the reed.
I’m as new as a new beginner can get despite having my practice set for over a year. I pick em and put em down for long periods of time just because I get so much resistance from them.
I’m having the same problem as the original poster. I just can’t put enough air into the bag to keep the chanter sounding for more than a second or two. Instead of slow steady breaths coming from the bellows, it’s like I’m hyperventilating… repeated short rapid breaths or squeezes.
The bag seems to be air tight if I blow it up and cork it, but with chanter I can’t seem to keep it filled and despite air moving out of the bag through the chanter, there is no sound.
The bellows also are airtight when corked. All valves seem to do what they’re supposed to do.
The chanter reeds will sound fairly easily if I draw air through it by mouth. (I say reeds because I’ve tried several in attempt to figure this out) Even the plastic reed will not remain sounding for any noticeable amount longer then the wood reed.
I’ve replaced the connecting tube as the first one had been stored in such a manner that the hose had a permanent kink.
So, this is where I’ve arrived.. I suspect the bellows has too little capacity as I compare it to photo’s of others. Fully opened it might have a 30 degree angle and others look to be closer to 45 degrees at maximum. Could this be the issue possibly?
Thanks for any advice.
Where are you located? Obviously since we’re still in the middle of a serious global pandemic in person support will be challenging, but ideally you should have someone try the set to find out what’s going on.
The bellows shouldn’t be the issue, unless the valve on the bag isn’t working correctly. Are you able to take just the bag (nothing attached), and plugging the chanter stock, fill up the bag and keep it full? Does air rush out of the bellows tube? Are there other leaks?
This sounds a bit odd. With a full bag you should be able to keep the chanter playing for like, I dunno, 10 seconds.
Just to be sure… there’s also a valve between the bag and the bellows, generally just a “flapper” valve. Mine is inside the inlet socket on the bag where the bellows tube plugs in. Sometimes they’re on the end of the tube itself. It should be oriented such that the flap is hanging down so that it naturally closes.
If the valve is missing or not working properly, air will escape the bag back into the bellows rather than out through your chanter.
It’s hard to know what’s wrong without being there.
With a full bag, can you keep the chanter sounding for several seconds even without pumping the bellows at all?
Is the problem that you can’t replace the air fast enough even with frantic pumping?
Maybe the reed is too “firm” or the lips of the reed are too wide, making it too difficult to play? I know you’ve got two reeds you’ve tried, but it could be an issue regardless. Depending on the bridle, you can sometimes slide the bridle down the the reed towards the staple to close the reed lips over more. Unfortunately this can often really change the dynamics of the reed. Sometimes you can squeeze the bridle to close the lips more, but be careful if the bridle has a “gap” then you can end up pincering the reed and breaking it.
Who made the pipes? If they are a cheap ebay set then we have a whole lot more troubles than if it’s from a reputable maker.
The best thing to do is to find a good teacher, or even just a competent piper, who can take a look at the set and see what’s going on with it.
I know a guy, a very good very experienced Highland piper, who decided to learn uilleann pipes.
When he got his first set I offered to come over and check out his pipes and check on his progress. He declined and decided to teach himself entirely.
A few months later I bumped into him at a festival and he said he wasn’t playing any sort of pipes now, he had injured his shoulder trying to force his uilleann pipes to play.
He said the reed was stronger than any Highland pipe reed he had played in 30 years of Highland piping.
I told him that uilleann reeds are never supposed to be that strong! That if we had got together when he had started the uilleann pipes I would have immediately seen the problem and adjusted his reed so it played at the correct pressure.
So PLEASE beginners don’t go it alone! Don’t guess how a reed is supposed to work. Don’t assume that however your reed happens to be is the way it’s supposed to be.
Reed adjustment can’t be done on Skype etc it must be done in person. Anybody who isn’t actually playing your reed can’t know how it’s behaving.
I think that it could also be something completely different, based on my experience. I’ve had the same problem sometimes.
First of all, I would check whether the bag is even tight: remove the chanter, cork it, inflate it with the bellows. The bag then has to stay as firm as a football for at least the first 20 seconds. If the bag doesn’t stay so tight, but instead goes slack immediately after few seconds, then that is the first problem.
After becoming a firm football-bag you can take care of a reed that is probably too wide open or too hard.
Try this and let us know
Christian Tietje, Germany, Seligenstadt
