Fairly straightforward question: Scatter the Mud (jig in A dorian): 2nd bar goes e’ a a, a b d. What is the “normal” way to articulate the three successive a’s? I am cutting the first 2 then striking (tapping) the next one. Any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
I would either tongue the first 2 and cut the third or tongue the first tap the second and cut the third. Glottlers would of course glottal instead of tongue.
Rob
What you’re describing is a roll, and it is a perfectly good way to
articulate three of the same note.
Brother Steve’s site also discusses the possibility of tounguing the third
note in a group of three when playing jigs. This would work well here.
You’d slur the e and the first A, then tongue the second A, and either
cut or tap the third A.
Personally, I would tap (strike) after the first A and cut after the second one - I think that sequence fits in better to the flow of a jig. I would generally strike between the 2nd & 3rd notes of a 3-note sequence in a jig. Tripping Up The Stairs springs to mind:
fa(tap)a gb(tap)b etc… In this example I would cut the g, making the sequence of ornamentation the same as in your example.
If the a’s came in as the first 3 notes of the bar or the second 3, then I would use a roll. As in The Kesh Jig, for example:
ggg gab | eee ebd’ would become
g(cut)g(tap)g (cut)gab | e(cut)e(tap)e (cut)ebd’
Confused?
Treeshark’s first solution sounds best of all the options so far, in my opinion.
something I learned from Turlach Boylan’s playing… do a long roll on the e and then play the “a” once. It’s a nice “flutey” way of getting around the 3 "a"s…
so…
e3 ABd
I think, rather than doing this, I would instead turn the first two As into a short roll, i.e. e~2A ABd (not sure of the abc syntax, but hopefully you get my drift). This is less “flutey” than what you suggest, but I think more in the spirit of the tune. The A is an open string on the fiddle, so likely the fiddler will dig in at least a little bit on those two notes. It would be nice to match that on the flute, rather than leaving out the A notes entirely.
In reality, though, rather than rolling the A I’d be more likely to glottal-stop the first two As and then cut the third, or maybe even glottal-stop all three with a stronger breath pulse on the last one (the one on the beat).
I would generally do something similar to john… except tap the last… but I might not always do that either…
My abc above wasn’t correct… I meant (in bold)
Bd [eAA BAG] [E3 ABd]
If playing in the above style, I would also add the Bcd triplet at the end… instead of just playing Bd.
FWIW… I’m a sucker for the flutey craic.
Those are all useful suggestions.
I agree with John - the a’s are a kind of pedal that the higher notes play against. They sound nice on banjo (or fiddle) because they make a ringing sound on the open a string. I’m trying to keep this “hammering” quality in my flute version of the tune.
I’m intrigued by the tonguing suggestions. I had more or less tried to eliminate tonguing because I use it too much. It certainly makess these kind of articulations easier.
I think I will move away from striking the 3rd a - it falls on a beat, and I find I have to almost overblow the note to get a clean strike. Better to cut.
Anyway, thanks for the help!
(and also for the Kesh jig, which I am working on as well).
C# grace note, Strike, then Tap so you move pointer finger, middle finger, and then ring finger that is how I would do it it is pretty much a cut with a C# grace before it.
here’s one way to articulate, not the best but hopefully gives you an idea.
i played the ‘a’ part a few times before heading into the ‘b’ part.
http://www.savefile.com/files/1922019
this version is what i knew as ‘freehan’s no.2’. it comes after a mighty jig which is aptly called ‘freehan’s no.1’.
another version which i like is jack and charlie’s, it’s on their ‘branch line’ cd.
Hay, thanks Rama. That’s very generous of you. Can you describe (briefly!) what you are doing in the first couple of bars?
To me it sounds kind of lame to use a roll to articulate this phrase. My general rule in jigs is to only use cuts and taps on the beat and tongue elsewhere. I’d either do treeshark’s first suggestion, or tongue just the second A and cut the third. If I were using the second method I’d also tongue the d so I could get a little backbeat pattern going.
here’s another clip of the ‘a’ part, this time i tried as many variations of it that i could think of (in a minute) based on what i read here. it isn’t necessarily a tune that i would normally play as i do not have a good feel for it, so this is a good exercise for me to see if i can get, but i’d rather tag along with a fiddler on it, and let them do all the work (hehe):
http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=8977057
played that bit (eaa abD) 4 times,
1 = tongue second 'a ', cut third ‘a’
2 = tongue second ‘a’, tap third ‘a’
3 = tongue three ‘a’ s
4= cut three 'a 's
I’d take a long drink from my pint and let the other folks in the session figure out what way they think is best.
Hmm I think the clips highlight a need to accent the 1st b with either a glottal or a tongue or you loose that jiggy rhythm, especially as the paired b’s are a repeated feature of the tune.
Rob
This thread is kind of going off at a tangent, looking at all the options. I was looking for something like what people would normally play the first or second time through without thinking about what they were doing or looking for variations. After all, this is a pretty common type of phrase in A dorian jigs (sixpenny money comes to mind). The thing that is different about Scatter the Mud is that the triplet on the second beat starts with an a, right after two previous a’s. For me, the easiest way of handling this is probably to just tongue that note, which leaves me with something like this:
e’, a, cut a; tongue a, b, d
As previously stated, I was trying to play all the repeated a’s with cuts or strikes. The tongue gives me a better articulation of the second beat, but it cuts across the advice I got from an earlier post - that many people who responded say they never or rarely use tonguing.
i don’t know if there is a standard or normal way to play it per se (as you can see). everyone does what they feel most comfortable playing based on their style, some like cuts more, some like tonguing etc..
i just thru some ‘options’ out there so you can hear how they might sound (as opposed to simply writng about it).
in the end, you get to decide how ‘you’ want to play it, if any of it is of interest.
if what you are currently doing is something that works for you (gets you the sound you want), then stick with it, there is nothing inheritantly wrong with it .
John Skelton covered that tune in a workshop a few years ago, and he actually focused on that very spot. His view, at least at that time, was that he would probably just tongue it and keep things clean.
However, once you’ve established the tune … 
… it’s variation time! How far d’you want to go?
Somebody mentioned Kesh jig, and since I’m more familiar with that tune I’ll “show ‘n’ tell” a variation. . .
If the ABC were written as follows:
G3 GAB
Here’s the broken down fingering played for “Worm-standard” IE what I would do first time around:
xxx000 G
0xx000
xxx000 G
xxxxxx ← I think this is what Avery is saying?
xxx000 G
0xx000
xxx000 G
THe variation - instead of four straight 8th-note G’s, the middle pair get replaced as a triplet. Not sure how to ABC that. In terms of fingering, the simple C cut gets replaced with a “doubled” A/B cut as follows:
xxx000 G 8th note
xx0000 <'A cut, starting triplet>
xxx000 G (1st in triplet)
x0x000 <'B cut]
xxx000 G (2nd in triplet)
xxxxxx
xxx000 G (3rd in triplet)
0xx000
xxx000 G 8th note
The A/B cut thing is a pibroch embellishment called an “edre.” It sounds like mush done poorly, but if the cuts are cleanly and soundly articulated it’s bubbly and poppy with each note being distinct.