I am extremely careful with the word fool. I don’t believe I’ve ever used it before (as a noun) in over 3000 posts on this forum.
Best wishes,
Jerry
My point was that, having used it, you overstated your case and compared to some extent apples and oranges. My advice is still good.
I have not overstated my case.
One of the most common symptoms of lead poisoning in adults is depression. Depression is life threatening. Suicide is very real, and it can wreak lifelong devastation on those who are left behind. I have survived two suicide attempts myself and battled with major depression most of my life. I would not wish that state of mind, even for a day, on my very worst enemy, let alone people I care about and with whom I share a heartfelt interest.
I am extremely serious about this. I will do whatever it takes to make it clear that lead exposure is not something to be taken lightly, and the possible effects of long term exposure are not anything to take chances with.
Best wishes,
Jerry
I have never questioned your sincerity, nor your earnestness, only what you offered as “evidence,” and some of your conclusions. The danger posed by the lead fipple of a whistle, when treated as suggested elsewhere in this thread by thorough cleaning and application of a coat of laquer to seal it, seems to me negligible. This is particularly true if the instrument is infrequently played, and those who do so are not automatically fools.
It is difficult to be poisoned by a substance with which one is not in any contact.
I choose not to play such instruments myself, as I indicated above. That is my own decision and is what I recommend. Others have chosen differently, and are, so far as I am aware, still doing fine. We disagree. That happens. I am content with it.
Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer choice.
You’ve done some trolling here, and you’ve managed to piss me off pretty good. My sincerity, bullshit. Don’t patronize me.
Nothing you or anyone else can post has any ability to state the true exposure risk from playing an antique whistle.
How effective is a lacquer coating in preventing lead from getting into the condensate inside the windway? What kind of lacquer and in what manner must the lacquer be applied to provide the greatest protective effect, and how much protection does it ensure? After how many months of playing such a whistle will the lacquer coating remain intact? Do differences in body chemistry among different players create differences in the whistlehead condensate resulting in variations in how long a lacquer film will remain intact? How can the player be certain there’s no lead oxide getting into the condensate that forms in the whistlehead? How careful does the player have to be not to injest any of the condensate? After how many pints of stout will the player forget to be careful? Do differences in body chemistry among different players create differences in the whistlehead condensate resulting in more or less tendency of the lead to oxidize or more or less tendency to dissolve existing lead oxide and draw it into the windway? How frequently should someone who regularly plays such a whistle be tested for lead levels? In 1000 people who play antique whistles more than one hour per week over a one, two, five and ten year period, what is the average increase, if any, in blood levels of lead? What is the maximum increase?
The point is, THERE’S NO DATA. You’re blowing smoke.
And the fact is, lead and especially oxidized lead, which I have seen with my own eyes in the mouthpieces of several antique whistles, is poisonous.
Best wishes,
Jerry
Hopefully that means you’ll not feel the need to respond to Jerry’s last post.
Excuse my butting in, but I don’t see why it has become necessary to turn Jerry’s absolutely sound warning that someone should be aware of the presence of lead in their whistle, and that lead can be extremely dangerous, into a pointless debate.
As a former trade union Health & Safety Officer I am well aware of how strict the rules are concerning exposure to it in UK workplaces. I don’t play my own old cylindrical antique with its lead fipple, despite that it is a lovely F whistle (if a bit sharp).
Frankly, your essay posted on Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:41 pm read like something hastily compiled after a hurried session with Google.
Let it go. Lead is dangerous and that’s that. That was the point I divined in Jerry’s post.
The OP is presumably compos mentis enough to make decisions without patronising, Google-powered, amateur toxicology advice.
Shame. Those antique whistles are so cool, and seem to have a nice low air requirement. Why’d they have to poison the damn things :roll:
For what it’s worth, the trolling and patronizing are in your own mind and nowhere else. I genuinely meant what I wrote. If you wish to be “pissed” then you’ll just have to be pissed. If you wish to resort to name-calling, then do it and demonstrate yourself a fool in your own words. If you wish to be irrational, then it’s your privilege; but I don’t chose to join you in any of these activities. An apology from you is in order here.
Something that has been neglected in all of this is that lead contamination is everywhere. One of the purposes of “clean rooms” in scientific laboratories is to prevent samples from being contaminated with environmental lead when lead is among the elements of interest. Lead exposure simply cannot be avoided.
Nothing you or anyone else can post has any ability to state the true exposure risk from playing an antique whistle.
That includes you, by the way. So where does that leave us? This is a rather silly statement.
How effective is a lacquer coating in preventing lead from getting into the condensate inside the windway?
My understanding is that good whistle technique involves blowing, not sucking. One remedy would be to keep the windway clean, which is relatively simple to do.
What kind of lacquer and in what manner must the lacquer be applied to provide the greatest protective effect, and how much protection does it ensure? After how many months of playing such a whistle will the lacquer coating remain intact?
Assuming the player isn’t blind, visual inspection should answer these questions. Kindly remember that I suggested playing this monstrous thing rarely, if at all.
How can the player be certain there’s no lead oxide getting into the condensate that forms in the whistlehead? How careful does the player have to be not to injest any of the condensate? Do differences in body chemistry among different players create differences in the whistlehead condensate resulting in more or less of a tendency of the lead to oxidize or more or less of a tendency to dissolve existing lead oxide and draw it into the windway?
And yet more than a few persons have played such instruments without ill effect. One wonders how they managed it.
After how many pints of stout will the player forget to be careful?
Ah, the terrible scourge of playing while intoxicated. We need effective laws to protect us from such irresponsible people and to prevent the misery they cause.
The notion of “personal responsibility” comes to mind.
Have you really forgotten what I wrote so quickly?
How frequently should someone who regularly plays such a whistle be tested for lead levels? In 1000 people who play antique whistles more than one hour per week over a one, two, five and ten year period, what is the average increase, if any, in blood levels of lead? What is the maximum increase?
Why don’t you conduct a study and report back to us? See my comments on “personal responsibility,” above, and remember that I personally don’t advise anyone to play such a whistle at all – though I still maintain that with care it can doubtless be done safely.
The point is, THERE’S NO DATA. You’re blowing smoke.
But you are not, of course?
And the fact is, lead and especially oxidized lead, which I have seen with my own eyes in the mouthpieces of several antique whistles, is poisonous.
So clean the thing and be done with it.
Mr. Freeman, if you are not able to keep from becoming angry then we should just agree to disagree, and go on to other things.
I’m with Jerry on this. It’s so hard to get data on this because suicides are not often
thoroughly investigated. It would be hard to tell that a person’s death resulted from lead
in a whistle played 10 years before the suicide occurred.
And Jerry’s right that you don’t want anything to do with depression. I don’t care how much
medicine you throw at it, it is a difficult disease to live with.
Speaking in a convincing manner about the safety of something that is actually in doubt
is really, really dangerous. It’s like encouraging someone to bungee jump unsupervised
from a bridge.
I think extreme caution is always a good thing where lead is concerned.
Even a small risk of heavy metal toxicity isn’t worth it, in my opinion.
Play an Oak and have numb lips instead. 
–James
Evidently not… sigh
Ok. This will need to stop, so I’ll lock the thread. I’d add by way of disclaimer, that I think that we don’t know nearly enough about this topic, but we know enough to know that lead is toxic and people ought to avoid putting in their mouths, for crying out loud. In any case, we’re not going to have people here debating this topic and we’re sure not going to have people espouse a kind of devil-may-care attitude about something as serious as lead poisoning.
Locked.