I’m thinking about entering a marathon this fall. It all depends on my knees, but I have to register within a couple of weeks. I’ve had no trouble this spring building up my long runs – I hope to go out for 15 today.
So, other than I’m crazy and need to drop 10-15 pounds, any suggestions?
djm
My podiatry classmate Steve Pribut specializes in sports medicine and has some great information here:
My friends who have done it, trained with a group. The group was a big help because there were veteran marathoners telling the newbies what to expect, and what might be dangerous.
If a person is having knee problems, I would probably seek something easier on the knees like riding a century on a bike or doing long swims.
P. S. I thought you lost the weight a couple of years ago, when there was a weight thread in the pub.
I just watched this on NOVA this past week-- it’s called “Marathon Challenge”.
They take a team of 12 sedentary (but committed) people and coach them towards the goal of running the Boston Marathon. We see their progress over the 9 months and learn a lot of exercise physiology along the way. All of the participants made it except for one woman who developed stress fractures. Amazing and very inspiring!
It’s available to watch online:
Good thoughts all, Bill. Group running isn’t my thing, but I do run regularly with a seasoned marathoner and occasionally with my brother, who’s run several. I’ll probably do long runs with each. They have opposite views on training, btw, which is one reason I thought I’d consult the Chiffboard Oracle. The guy I run with regularly is of the opinion that one needs to do at least a couple of runs of 20 miles or more before his first marathon. My brother says that if you’ve run 14 miles or so a few times in the month or two before the race, you’ll be fine.
Cycling is harder on my knees than running; I can’t swim, partly because of the shoulders, mostly because I hate it. I’ve found that cross-training, running and biking on alternate days, is optimum. For training for a half last year, I generally alternated biking and running during the week and did one long run on the weekends. The difference for a full marathon would be that the long runs will be longer. I’d probably try to get in a 40-50 mile ride on the weekend during the hot months.
Yeah, I got down to about 165 a few years ago during the Chiffy weight loss challenge, but I’ve not dropped below 170 since, and I regularly get up to 175-180 during the winter. I’m at about 180 now. I’ve heard several times recently that keeping the weight down is much more important for runners due to the pounding. (Of course I’ve known this intellectually for some time.)
That should not be. It might be your position on your bike, or the desire to grind too high a gear. Low impact gentle cycling can be good for knees. Though too much, in too high a gear in a poor position on a poor fitting bike can ruin them.
If group running isn’t your thing why even think about marathon and the potential for major knee problems? Marathons are all big group runs. A person can do plenty of 10k runs and lose weight, without the possibility of knee ruination that comes with 26 miles.
A friend did one marathon and felt knee pain at 14 miles. She pressed through to the finish, but badly hurt her knee. After the marathon she had to take nine months off from running. Worth it? Not to me, but YMMV.
Good health is worth a lot more than a t-shirt or whatever minor ego boost a person might get from doing a marathon. If a person already has knee problems, and doesn’t enjoy group runs, I really don’t see the point, other than ego, but maybe that is just me. I vote NAY.
Actually, that Nova show about the marathoners pointed out that running is not a good way to lose weight. They said that running is good for improving circulation and heart health, but if you want to lose weight, changing one’s diet is more important.
djm
Isn’t there some way you don’t have to do either?
Of course, dear. Intravenous chocolate. I highly recommend it! 
djm
Cycling should be a lot easier on the knees than running. I’d definitely make sure that your bike is setup properly for you. A good bike shop can do that correctly by setting your bike up on a trainer.
I race in triathlons, have completed several half-Ironmans and was training for a full Ironman was I was injured (from running). The biggest mistake I made when training for the marathon leg was running too much on asphalt. One thing you should consider is to at least do some off-road running (if you can’t cross train). I had developed plantar fasciitis and feel it on the road, but it doesn’t bother me at all on the trails. If you can’t do that, run on the grass whenever you can. You’ll save your knees, other joints, ligaments, etc.
Best of luck with your training and the race.
It depends on what the knee problem is. My orthopedist isn’t surprised that too much cycling causes knee pain, nor is my physical therapist. If the stress is caused by the way the kneecap glides when the knee is bent, cycling is the worst thing you can do. I have friends who have the same thing as I have, and it’s caused by cycling.
And, yes, I have a decent bike, and I’ve had both someone at a bike shop and my physical therapist check that I have the right frame size and seat height, and I’ve discussed proper cadence and riding technique with them.
If group running isn’t your thing why even think about marathon and the potential for major knee problems? Marathons are all big group runs. A person can do plenty of 10k runs and lose weight, without the possibility of knee ruination that comes with 26 miles.
I’ve done plenty of 10k’s. My experience is that two runs of one length do more damage than one run of twice the length. I felt better after training for and running the half marathon last year than I’ve ever felt after a 10k. And running once with a few thousand people I don’t know doesn’t seem to me to be running with a group. It’s running by myself while there are a bunch of people running around me. And my desire to run a marathon is just that – a desire to run a marathon, not a desire to lose weight. The desire to lose weight is just a desire to take some stress off my knees, marathon or no.
A friend did one marathon and felt knee pain at 14 miles. She pressed through to the finish, but badly hurt her knee. After the marathon she had to take nine months off from running. Worth it? Not to me, but YMMV.
Good health is worth a lot more than a t-shirt or whatever minor ego boost a person might get from doing a marathon. If a person already has knee problems, and doesn’t enjoy group runs, I really don’t see the point, other than ego, but maybe that is just me. I vote NAY.
Duly noted. I know way more people who have been injured in auto accidents than have been injured from running, yet I still drive. I’m a careful driver and a careful runner. I happen to love running. I’ve grown to love long-distance running in the last couple of years. Believe it or not, my knees are way better since I discovered it than they were before. My mileage does vary.
Yeah, I’d agree with that.
I can cycle all day long but about fifeteen years ago I was up to about twelve mile runs when my right knee went kind wonky. Since then I can’t run ten yards without the knee giving in. I’ll walk and cycle forever but the running is out of the question.
Such is Life..
Slan,
D.
Oh, yeah, I run mostly on trails in the woods. Good point.
It would have been much easier had you pointed out all your exceptional exceptions in the original post. For the average person, running is terrible on the knees. For the average person, training with a group, and running with a group are a big part of wanting to do a marathon.
Go ahead and register, if your knees give out, you are only out the modest registration fee.
Finally, you sure have a lot of nerve responding with attitude and citing auto accident injuries, and your exceptional exceptions after the fact, after I take the time giving my well rounded advice. Did you expect people to read your mind, and your exceptional medical chart instead of what works and what is good for the average person?
I have always despised running. Seriously. I hated every step. It was just so much work. So utterly impossible to keep everything going all at once. And I suffered miserably for years because of it. I limped so much people who didn’t know me well thought I had a birth defect.
When my knee went out, I was glad, because I had an excuse not to run.
I have that same problem. Unfortunately, my physical therapists were not as aware as yours. Despite the doctor’s diagnosis, they were always shocked when the inevitable cycling prescription didn’t work out. 
I was regularly commuting short distances via a properly fitted cycle and already knew my cycling limits.
I guess my suggestion would be: Try to know your limits. Sign up for the marathon, but if you are injury prone, reevaluate each time you go out, and make your decisions physically, not intellectually.
Do it. Don’t listen to the numpties.
Lamby I’m with you. I have two brothers that are marathon runners. I much prefer to lie in a hammock well-snacked and adequately beveraged.
Isn’t there enough suffering in the world? Must we torture ourselves? Or, at least, wouldn’t it be a lot quicker to roll down a hill in a burlap bag full of bricks to get the same effect? I mean why spend all day making yourself miserable? 
Chas, I’d be happy to send you a box of triscuits and some Cheese Whiz if it would help you avert this thing.
Doc
Hi Chas!
Go for it, and pick a marathon in a fun city and combine the race with a nice vacation. You are worth it!!!
Dublin marathon is a great one to start with, very flat and with an exceptional crowd.
Then you can also combine the trip with some sightseeing and session playing
It’s on the 27:th of October this year so you are right on time to get started.
The trip thing will also keep you motivated to get your weekly distances, much more so then if you were to participate in a local event.
When it comes to injuries - go slow and prepare in time. In my opinion, that’s were most people go wrong. They make a promise during new years, sign up and start to exercise a few month before the race. If you are fit but not a runner you’ll need 6-9 month training to run a marathon in 4-5 hours. If you are an average Joe just starting out you’ll need at least 12 months. If you are unfit or overweight you’ll need a few weeks/months of walking before you even should attempt to run. Otherwise the risk is high that you will get injured.
In the last case cycling is the route to go if you need to lose weight and get in to shape. That, or Nordic walking.
My advice is to get started on a marathon training program, there are plenty of free ones on the web, and set a good and reasonable schedule for your training.
Get a good pair of shoes that supports your foot and body. Remember that even the expensive ones have a life span of <150 running hours.
If you have knee problems you will most likely be able to cycle, but stay away from mountain biking, and big gear riding. Road cycling with an rpm of ~90 will give very little tension on the knees. Cycling and swimming is also one of the two most common rehab exercises after knee injury.
I’ll do a few randonneur races (300-600 km) this summer and had planned to run Marathon du Médoc. Unfortunately my sister decided to get married the same weekend so maybe I’ll see you in Dublin instead
Best of luck!
/MarcusR