there is also a Cloos band flute with no eb key on the same site
I thought maybe the keys were removed and filled at some point when I first saw these, I suppose like anything there is nothing new under the sun. Keyless conical flutes appear to have been made and for what market?
I am not surprised by anything that pops up. Piccolos with c feet, G firth and pond flutes, firth looking low whistles.
Many baroque flutes are keyless and antique - the key placement took place as the flute evolved over the past century. Many of these keyless antiques are reproduction copies or Irish wooden flutes - there are plenty which aren’t fifes!
The baroque flute had a wider head bore than exit bore, thus less volume was required to sustain the air channel. Without a manufacturer’s seal nor knowledge of how it plays, I’d settle for a new one at that price!
Hard to say without more details about this one - but with a split in the head, is it really worth £199?!
Hi James these are much later than keyless cylindrical renaissance flutes and baroque flutes, which I now associate with having an Eb key obviously the key had to have been developed at some point {Hotterre?} and much earlier than keyless irish flutes. I know flute history fairly well and that’s why I find these interesting.
Keyless conical flutes are really very recent development for Irish music but then here they are with no eb key?
When I first saw the Cloos flute on the American site I thought for sure the key had been lost and filled and post removed.
Just like the low whistle is a recent invention yet I have seen a nineteenth century American made keyed wooden low whistle? Large flagelot I suppose? Cheater instrument for fluter without embouchre practice?
I can only think of a regional explanation for the differences (if this flute is a genuine ‘copy’ of an original).
Hotteterre’s developmental line span from Berlin - St Petersburg → Europe however the number of museum copies of his flutes are limited. Later manufacturers emulating his style can only work from whatever proximity and knowledge they can get of his originals, whether in 2D paper descriptions, or drawings and diagrams. That would account for some differences, but not all.
Here is a late renaissance French style (Lissieu) flute:
It’s bore suggests its design is earlier - its provenance is from Lyon where Lissieu worked. The seller, claims these are made by the reputed Polish manufacturer in the link. It is based on one of the few copies of the Lissieu flutes still on exhibition. As for the rest of us…how would we know if we had never seen it … hmmm. Yes - these are keyless, but later variations (and cost) come in, and then Frankenflutes as time goes on …
To test whether your auction listing is an authentic period replica or not, you may have to ask about the shape and surface of the lower keys, to find out if there is evidence of a key being removed. I guess I tend to be more sceptical and if a seller lists something with a crack in it, with no manufacturer’s name; no clarity of design for no small amount, I’d settle for the Lissieu! I just wouldn’t have the knowledge to probe into whether I’m buying a £2 relic from a small historical replica manufacturer who made a mistake in the design
Hi again James,
I assume the Lissieu copy is based on a flute that predates the invention of the Eb key. I am talking here about nineteenth century flutes lacking an Eb key years and years beyond its invention. That’s what is unusual. A Keyless flute at this time. The ebay one was just a starting point as I happened to notice it today I am not interested in purchasing it. I would have guessed it was homemade but not sure. I would have guessed besides reproductions of pre eb keys, cylindrical bored keyless fifes, homemade folk flutes {bortree flutes etc.}, Giorgi flutes ect. keyless flutes did not reappear till the seventies made for irish music.
