Dear Friends of the Whistle,
I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas und some nice Days.
As this is my first Post to the Whistle-Universe first i want to say hello.
Hello.
I am kind of new to the Whistle, playing more or less since January.(2010)
The last few decades i played the pipes, and started my musical way as an classical Organist.
Some Days ago i recorded “Mairi Bhan Og” and “The Kesh” for my Sister Mary. Maybe someone here has the Nerves to listen.
From a quick listen it sounds like you’ve got wonderful ornamentation. The only criticism I would have is in your lack of use of tonguing. That’s understandable if you’re new to the whistle from the pipes. If you use closed-finger piping (i.e. staccato style like Seamus Ennis or Patsy Touhey) you create small pockets of silence between notes, giving the illusion of tonguing. This adds a great deal of articulation and also helps to create somewhat of a rhythmic swing in piping music. In order to mimic that effect on the whistle we have to use tonguing. Some whistle players tongue almost every note, others not so much. But we all use it.
It seems the pipes technique is very present in your whistle playing. I really like it.
I tend to tongue way too much so this was very helpful for me to listen to the tunes and hear what can be done with very little tonguing. I plan to try out these tunes like that just to try and get in the habit of tonguing less.
Erm, no. Well, ok, some (not all) whistlers use tonguing (it’s a contraversial subject) but I’d say that beginners are more likely to use tonguing than experienced players. I wouldn’t encourage a beginner to use more tonguing. There are plenty of ways to separate notes using fingers rather than using the tongue.
Mike, Writing as a beginner who uses tonguing too much right now can you enlarge on what you said and explain some techniques for separating notes using the fingers rather than tonguing. Thanks.
Thomas, lovely playing. Can you tell me what low whistle you use? I suspect an Overton/Goldie Low D but perhaps it is a big hole model. Right now I’m trying to differentiate the tone of a standard Overton Low D from its bigger hole counterpart.
I have no wish to enter any sort of discussion on the subject but HERE is a little archive clip I posted in the course of a discussion on the Flute forum last week.
The recording can speak for itself but we can safely say there’s not a hint of tonguing in sight. The discussion on the flute forum was, appropriately, about glottal stops.
Interesting. I’m by no means a beginner and I use tonguing almost constantly. Sounds like I need to go back and re-listen to some of my whistle albums. Of course, tonguing is a matter of personal style and preference. Micho Russell definitely used a great deal of tonguing (among other techniques not so common these days). If memory serves me correctly, both Willie Clancy and Mary Bergin also use(d) a great deal of tonguing, as does Sean Ryan. He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe L.E. McCullough also uses a great deal of tonguing; including tongued triplets - a technique I’m am yet to master. Those are the sort of players I listen to most. Perhaps it’s primarily modern tin whistle professionals who don’t use tonguing so much? One way or another it’s really all a matter of personal taste.
Also, I’m not talking so much about separating notes as articulating them. Even on the uilleann pipes, closed-finger piping isn’t just used for separating notes. If you listen to someone like Robbie Hannan or Sean Og Potts closely you will hear brief silences (blurps or whatever) between almost every note. This is roughly the UP equivalent to tonguing. But, of course, not all pipers use such methods of articulation. You’d be hard-pressed to hear someone like Johnny Doran, Paddy Keenan, or John McSherry adding these little blurps of silence into their style. So again, it’s a matter of personal taste and style.
I would certainly recommend that beginners know how to tongue and master the technique. In the end it’s never a bad thing to master all the techniques of whistle playing. As one advances and develops one’s own style then certain techniques can be emphasized and others minimized according to one’s preference.
I do agree with you, however. The clip I listened to (Kesh) was very nice, and I enjoyed it. Since he asked for some feedback, I just added my two pesos. Whether he follows my advise and uses more tonguing, or follows others’ and maintains a more legato style really doesn’t matter. His style as already quite lovely and only in need of very minor tweaking gained through practice, not additional technique.
[quote=“Mikethebook”]Mike, Writing as a beginner who uses tonguing too much right now can you enlarge on what you said and explain some techniques for separating notes using the fingers rather than tonguing. Thanks.
Other techniques for separating notes would be cuts, elongated cuts, pats, or even glottal stops. Incidentally, I use every one of these, minus glottal stops, plus tonguing to separate notes when I’m playing whistle. It really just depends on what the tune calls for at the time.
I tongued way more than I do now when I was first getting started (and I tongue a lot now). It’s not a bad thing to over-use while you’re learning. You’ll eventually level out and come into your own style. It is good practice to play tunes with little to no tonguing if you’re used to tonguing a lot. It’s also good practice to play tunes with maximal tonguing if you usually play with minimal. Doing so will give you new perspectives on the tunes and will reveal some rhythmic nuances that you may have missed if you only practiced a tune the way you would normally play it.
Even on the uilleann pipes, closed-finger piping isn’t just used for separating notes. If you listen to someone like Robbie Hannan or Sean Og Potts closely you will hear brief silences (blurps or whatever) between almost every note. This is roughly the UP equivalent to tonguing. But, of course, not all pipers use such methods of articulation. You’d be hard-pressed to hear someone like Johnny Doran, Paddy Keenan, or John McSherry adding these little blurps of silence into their style.
We had a thread on the piping forum about that recently too. In reality, the difference between legato and non-legato styles is not quite as clear cut. In fact you would find a lot of non legato playing in pipers usually cast as ‘open’ players, the Dorans and Keenan included. Equally you’ll find a lot of ‘open’ playing in players who are more often associated with the other end of the spectrum, Ennis, Reck and Clancy among them.
Thanks for the Answers, and thanks a lot for the hints.
Yes, the Tonguing, (sic) i think that there is some Work for me to do.
(funny enough, i have the same work on the Pipes to do. Sometimes i like a little staccato, but my Fingers ( and tongue) have to learn that)
Thanks again, and some beautiful last Days in 2011 to everyone
Thomas
I can confirm this. I’m working my way through his tunebook (the complete tin whistle tutor) and he tongues a lot, using it for emphasis along with staccato notes. I like his playing and I guess I’m unconsciously imitating what I hear on his CDs.
I think the idea to practice without tonguing and with maximum tonguing is a good one. lately I’ve been trying no tonguing which is an excercise suggested by Bill Ochs in his book.
Tonguing is okay, as long as you don’t approach it the way a recorder player would.
Glottal stopping is okay (glottal stopping is really about how you end a note, not how you start it; if you’ve stopped a note with a glottal stop, you will start the next note with a little pulse of air as you reopen your windpipe). The effect is quite similar to that of tonguing.
Not tonguing at all and not glottal stopping at all are okay too. Listen to recordings of Seamus Ennis playing the whistle if you want evidence.
What’s not okay is long passages with no rhythmic emphasis whatsoever. The best example of that I can think of is the old recordings of the brilliant musician Billy Noveck, who did some wonderful jazz work on the pennywhistle but had no clue when it came to playing Irish tunes. He took long phrases and used only cuts and rolls to separate notes, with no breath pulsing, tonguing, or glottal stops to create phrasing, rhythmic emphasis, or lift. It was possibly the most boring whistle playing I’ve ever heard in my life, although I loved what he did when he played jazz on the whistle and I was a big fan of his clarinet playing as well. He was/is a great musician, and I think he just needed someone at the time to explain to him how Irish music worked.
Agreed that it’s a valid technique, but I think it’s much harder to unlearn tonguing, so I wouldn’t start there. I’m not a teacher, but everyone I know who picks up a whistle seems to treat it like a recorder and starts tonguing (or worse, just blows/huffs individual notes). My first tip to anyone picking up a whistle is to stop tonguing.
Hello again,
I have taken the advice and worked on tonguing a bit. I thing it will do no harm to know how to use it, but I don’t want to sound to much like a Recorder. (I really like Baroque Recorder Music, but that’s another Story)
I have recorded another Tune,http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/12136243 Criticism and hints are much appreciated. The Whistle is the Howard Low D, like in Mairi Bhan Og.
Sounds like I need to go back and re-listen to some of my whistle albums. Of course, tonguing is a matter of personal style and preference. Micho Russell definitely used a great deal of tonguing (among other techniques not so common these days). If memory serves me correctly, both Willie Clancy and Mary Bergin also use(d) a great deal of tonguing, as does Sean Ryan. He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe L.E. McCullough also uses a great deal of tonguing; including tongued triplets - a technique I’m am yet to master. Those are the sort of players I listen to most. Perhaps it’s primarily modern tin whistle professionals who don’t use tonguing so much? One way or another it’s really all a matter of personal taste.
Whether he follows my advise and uses more tonguing, or follows others’ and maintains a more legato style really doesn’t matter. His style as already quite lovely and only in need of very minor tweaking gained through practice, not additional technique. 
hmmm, naja, i dont have another high D…