Hi, I’m new to this board as well as new to the whistle. In fact I haven’t even got my whistle yet. Yes, I also hate to wait for whistles in the mail. Actually I ordered three inexpensive ones (a sweetone, a clare and a generation. Good choice?) to be a bit ahead of the WhOA. But maybe I should introduce myself a bit. I’m Tom Goossens from Holland and I play guitar in a band (www.staalmetglazen.nl). Right now we play mostly dutch ska and pop but I’m trying to get some folk elements into the music, hence the whistle. I’m really looking forward to start learning it.
So, get to the point… Okay, I wanted to ask you guys if anyone of you could give me some hints on how to amplify a whistle on stage.
Greetings from a fellow Dutch whistleplayer Yes, I’d say you made a good choice of whistles. The generation is a hit-or-miss affair, but a Clare is very nice. Me, I don’t like Sweetones, but your opinion may vary. You chose from a wide variety of whistle types, which can only be good.
As for amplification, just use a voice mic, like the Shure SM-57/58 (?) ones. Keep the whistle window (the top bit) close to the mic while playing, because that’s where sound is produced. Experiment a bit with this. Then, yell and scream at your sound technician for not doing a proper job.
Get a good soundman and your whistle won’t matter. The short of it is that when playing a whistle live, it doesn’t matter the mic any more than the rest of your audio gear, the size and quality of the room, or the tendancy for feedback in your given application. Above all, a sound tech who is on the ball and familliar with acoustic instruments and how to mix with electrics is imperative - can’t stress that enough.
Just play with the whistle window (mouthpiece) next to the mic. I usually play quite close to the mic, and move in and out for balance. The low notes are often quiet and the high notes get louder.
You can use a Shure 57 or 58. If you look at the frequency responses of these two mikes they are virtually identical. Also, saw Joannie Madden at an outdoor workshop in St. Paul. They had a small sound system set up for her and she went back immediately to the board and increased the reverb. She said she likes to go with a generous amount of reverb to get the best soun
I echo the comments of others on the mic placement, except in the case of Clarke Originals. These produce too much “thunder” with the mic placed above the whistle, so I usually place the mic below them (and turn up the gain a little).
As to playing Ska on the whistle - go for it! There are a number of non-ITM outfits out there (e.g. Carbon Leaf) that use the whistle to great effect. Why not become one more?
For Irish-influenced Ska music, check out the Trojans… (even though they were an English band) they pulled it off pretty well. Lots of good political songs (including one written to the tune of Whiskey in the Jar) and some classic covers such as Stagger Lee… and, of course, what English ska band would be compete without a song or two about legalizing marijuana. Quite a few of their tracks feature the whistle and concertina and some of the trad tunes they played sound to me like what would have happened if Shane MacGowan had been into ska, instead of punk, when the Pogues got started.
Any good mike is probably fine, with the right EQ and reverb on the channel. I second the Shure SM57 or SM58, just because it’s reliable, rugged, and trouble-free. The sharp treble roll-off around 15 kHz actually helps high whistles to sound less shrill than some crisper condenser mikes. And the proximity effect boost around 100 Hz helps to “fatten” the whistle sound (that’s why vocalists like them, too).
The SM58 vocal mike with the built-in pop filter is good for whistles, because it helps reduce breath noise. But I use an SM57 with an external foam filter, which also works well (and I can remove it for miking guitar or non-winds). Otherwise, the 2 mikes are basically identical.
Position the mike slightly higher than the whistle, and pointing down toward the fipple at around a 90 degree angle to the barrel of the instrument. That lets the breath stream pass over the front of the mike and not blow directly into it. Adjust the fipple-to-mike distance and position for best sound, and voilà.
Another popular and flexible solution is a good headset vocal mike positioned near the side of the fipple, like the pirate in this photo: http://www.pbase.com/eskin/image/75771434
This lets you move around on stage and still maintain a consistent sound. Works well for flute, too.
Thanks for all the replies! So I conclude a good vocal mic (e.g. SM58) will do. The hole in the fipple produces the sound. Position the mic so you don’t gasp or blow in it. I like the headset idea! I was thinking about using clip on mics… but where to put them? This is much simpler.
But first! I’ll have to learn to play the whistle. Yesterday I received a message that I can pick up the whistles tomorrow Yeehaa, I can finally get chiffin’ (whatever the @#%$ it means…pardon my dutch). I hope I can put my music knowledge as a guitarist to my advantage a bit. But as alsways it’ll probably come down to practice, practice,… etc.
Headset mics with flutes are different to using them with whistles. Flutes have a wide dynamic range whereas whistles do not. It is generally not possible to play a whistle quietly without it going flat but with a flute you can play it loud or quiet AND keep it in tune. For this reason if you want to exploit the dynamic possibilities that microphones offer then a stage mic is better than a headset. Simply move closer for loud and strong and back away slightly for quiet.
I’ve used both of these for amping the whistle, pretty much exclusively. I like the way they handle and sound. When I was in Houston, my guitar player was always buying different microphones, and I just never liked the way they handled the whistle as good as these Shures.
Yes, Adrian, I believe that, and myself prefer a boom stand and mike, even for whistle, for exactly the reasons you give, namely better control. In my case, it’s true for guitar, too, where I can actually change the sound dramatically by positioning different parts of the instrument in front of the microphone.
But I can say that one of the best flute players here, whom I play with regularly, sometimes uses a wireless headset mike with both whistle and flute, and she gets good results with both. Somehow she’s figured out how to make it work, though I think she prefers a stage mike for flute, as you say.
I guess it’s a matter of choice and compromises. In a stationary configuration in a room with a good PA, good acoustics, and competent sound engineer, a stage mike is great. But sadly, in practice sometimes convenience (more mobility, less feedback, etc.) trumps best sound. It’s the same with twangy guitar pickups (which I hate). When conditions are less than ideal – like jumping around in a ska band in a noisy club – maybe a headset is good enough. Or if you’re a pirate at Disneyland. Or if you’re one of these guys!:
Thanks for the link, MT. Others may correct me, but Irish music, indeed all folk music, is about having fun and these guys are obviously enjoying themselves.
Yeeha!, They Have Arrived. Though the sounds that I squeeze from them are not really worth amplifying yet. It is difficult not to blow to hard in it. Actually a was talking to a friend of mine who plays the clarinet. He says in a clarinet switching octaves is done by changing the way you blow but not necessarily how hard you blow. I told him for the whistle it is only how hard you blow. Am I right? I am not completely sure…
That’s more or less right. On a clarinet, your embouchure gets tighter as you go up in pitch and you compress the size of the reed-tip opening with your lower lip. But you also change the way you blow. And the clarinet has a register key operated by the thumb for changing registers (not octaves, because the clarinet overblows a 12th). The whistle has no register key or hole, so the control is all in the breath.
With a whistle, some players will argue about the effect of embouchure, or the tightness of your lips in producing a stream of air. Some whistles are more sensitive to embouchure than others. But with your whistles it should make little difference.
The first important thing is to produce a solid, steady tone. For example, finger a G (xxxooo), take a breath, and blow gently into the whistle. Now play a long, long sustained G in the first octave, trying to keep the pitch and the volume perfectly steady. Try different amounts of breath pressure, and notice the effect on the tone and pitch. Blow harder, and find the point where the tone “breaks” into the second octave. Now play that high G and do the same exercise with a long, steady pitch. Finally, try using your tongue very gently with the syllable “tu”, together with your breath pressure, to “kick” the pitch up and down between the 2 different octaves.
Repeat this procedure with each note of the whistle. Before long, you will find that you have much better control of the sound.
Thanks MT, that is a nice exercise. I can do the switching between the octaves. However, for me it is easier to blow the second octave than the first one. I think I tend to blow slightly to hard. I do have the impression that when I keep my mouth cavity more “open”, the lower octave notes are more stable. But I cant seem to figure out whether it is only my impression or if it is really true.
Also, when I blow a bit more perpendicular to the the fipple, I seem to get into the second octave at lower air pressure. Could this be?
Yes, probably. That is a common problem for beginners. In a different thread, Adrian wrote a nice description:
Some whistlers disagree about the mouth cavity, but I think you are right. That is a very good observation. Think “aa” as in Dutch “taal” or “oo” as in Dutch “boom” for the lower notes, and “i” as in “fiets” for the higher notes. I don’t know if the phenomenon is because of mouth resonance or the effect on the airstream, but I think many whistle players (and recorder players) do this instincively.
Yes, it could be. Also a good observation! When you change the angle with the mouthpiece, you effectively decrease the size of the windway. This lets you maintain the high speed of the breath with less forward pressure (and more “backpressure”), and gives more control, especially in the second octave.
[Note to other chiffers: I don’t claim expertise in aerodynamics or resonance, and I’m not trying to resurrect any debates about wind physics. But Tom’s observations seem intuitively correct to me.]
So good job! If you ever post a sound clip or video clip of your playing, let us know.
Yes, I’d say you made a good choice of whistles. The generation is a hit-or-miss affair, but a Clare is very nice. Me, I don’t like Sweetones, but your opinion may vary. You chose from a wide variety of whistle types, which can only be good.
Yeehaa, I can finally get chiffin’ (whatever the @#%$ it means…pardon my dutch). I hope I can put my music knowledge as a guitarist to my advantage a bit. But as alsways it’ll probably come down to practice, practice,… etc.